[Palma]

Sigh. It's always a battle between people like you who want very long stop spacing (1km? 2km?), and those who complain when you remove a stop even 100m away from the next one. You should hear the people who go to public meetings about Eglinton bus stops that aren't on the LRT.

It's about finding a reasonable balance. Personally I think that in the suburbs speed matters more and 1-2km is fine, because things are simply farther apart and people travel longer distances. In urban and dense locations like Oakland & Eglinton or along the Danforth, 500-600m is fine. For short routes like Spadina even less is OK. You can get a pretty good speed at 600m average stop spacing. As stated before speed is only one factor, with frequency & reliability being other important ones which affect your trip time (how long you have to wait for the vehicle).

8 min to walk along Eglinton from Oakwood to Dufferin, but what if you aren't directly on Eglinton? You could be living 5 min north of Eglinton & Oakwood. If you remove Oakwood, the walk becomes 13 minutes instead of 5 minutes. Now, would you take transit for a quick trip if every trip results in 13 min of walking to the stop and back, meaning 26 min of walking? What about in very cold weather? Suddenly it becomes less convenient. You might only take transit twice a day to get to work, but never do multiple trips because it's such a long walk. Or maybe you'd have to take a bus and give up on walking.

I'm just saying adding 8 min of walking to every transit trip can result in using transit less than you would if you were closer. If you're doing multiple transit trips a day, sometimes walking 8 min there and back for dinner, then 10 min to your destination and back for groceries can add up.

I cannot believe this. I use to walk 20 min in the morning to get to the subway and then again at night after work every day for 11 years. So ya I would do it. This is unreal. And by the way why would you pay $3.00 for a quick trip. It would seem to me it would be better to walk that quick trip. I have given up. Whenever I had a weekly appointment during my lunchhour from Yonge and Bloor to St George and Bloor (in front of Varsity), there was no way I was going to pay a token for a 45 min appointment and then pay again to go back to work. I walked it. These use to be weekly appointments for 3 years - winter and summer.

 

[Palma]

I agree with you that St Clair is slow for longer distance travel due to close stop spacing as well as closely spaced intersections.

However, it's not like Rob Ford is saying "the stop spacing on St Clair is too close and it's therefore too slow". I doubt he's ever thought about stop spacing in relation to transit speed.

The reason he calls it a "disaster" is because he used to drive up there to go to the newstalk 1010 studios and was frustrated by the slow traffic, and blamed the streetcar.

I personally believe that if you wanted to increase car speeds along St Clair, you should start by banning street parking on the street, that's the main reason it's a slow street for cars.

But along the Danforth, there is 1 lane for parking on both sides and only1 lane for cars (other than from I think Yonge till you get to Broadview) so its similar to St. Clair. But there are less stops or should I say intersections from side streets onto the Danforth then St Clair and they are stop signs for thsoe intersections not stop lights (except for major intersections) along the Danforth. Plus the lanes are wider and straight where as on St Clair more narrow because of the space alloted to those streetcar stops, and benches to sit down so when you get to those all too frquent intersections you get a third lane. You don't see seating at bus stops or streetcar stops - why was it necessary for St Clair.

 

[Palma]

You clearly have not felt the frustration of St. Clair. I rreeealllyy hate to give this to Robbie, but it is a disaster if you're looking to use it as a 'rapid transit' option. In the morning, I have two options to go from St. Clair/Keele to St. Clair/Yonge: take the streetcar the whole way, or; a) take the bus south to Keele subway station, b) take the 2 line to Bloor-Yonge, and c) Take the 1 line north to St. Clair. The latter is 4 km longer, but is at least 10 minutes shorter.

We do not need another local-style St. Clair streetcar, we need a rapid LRT as Metrolinx as planned. Adding more stops is just giving fuel to Ford Nation.

I find it faster to go from farnham (3 stops south of St Clair) and Avenue Rd, and go south to Dupont and then Davenport and then north on Christie to St Clair then to go north to St clair and Avenue Rd to get to Christie

 

[ehlow]

I cannot believe this. I use to walk 20 min in the morning to get to the subway and then again at night after work every day for 11 years. So ya I would do it. This is unreal. And by the way why would you pay $3.00 for a quick trip. It would seem to me it would be better to walk that quick trip. I have given up. Whenever I had a weekly appointment during my lunchhour from Yonge and Bloor to St George and Bloor (in front of Varsity), there was no way I was going to pay a token for a 45 min appointment and then pay again to go back to work. I walked it. These use to be weekly appointments for 3 years - winter and summer.

If you have a metropass, a lot of people use transit for shorter trips, and many use it multiple times a day. I did when I had a metropass.

Is 500-600m stop spacing unreasonable to you in all situations? Would you for example remove half the stops the Bloor subway, or Yonge south of Bloor?

For example, if the Yonge subway south of Bloor had close to 1km stop spacing, it would be: Bloor, College, Queen, Union, with Wellesley, Dundas, and King removed.

If it were 2km spacing (which is the distance from Eglinton to Lawrence), it would be Bloor and Queen.. and that's it.

The point I'm trying to make is that different stop spacing is suitable for different environments.

As a side not, why does this station in particular offend you so much? I would much more inclined to remove Ferrand or Lebovic stops than any of the underground ones.

 

[Palma]

If you have a metropass, a lot of people use transit for shorter trips, and many use it multiple times a day. I did when I had a metropass.

Is 500-600m stop spacing unreasonable to you in all situations? Would you for example remove half the stops the Bloor subway, or Yonge south of Bloor?

For example, if the Yonge subway south of Bloor had close to 1km stop spacing, it would be: Bloor, College, Queen, Union, with Wellesley, Dundas, and King removed.

If it were 2km spacing (which is the distance from Eglinton to Lawrence), it would be Bloor and Queen.. and that's it.

The point I'm trying to make is that different stop spacing is suitable for different environments.

As a side not, why does this station in particular offend you so much? I would much more inclined to remove Ferrand or Lebovic stops than any of the underground ones.

Well thats true - remove Ferrand and Lebovic for sure over Oakwood. I do agree different stop spacing different for different areas. But at Oakwood and Eglinton, its different. I have seen those propse to get rid of Bathurst station because how many people will be getting on at Bathurst and Eglinton and even Avenue Rd. But I guess since they are major streets, is why the stops. For oakwood, I don't know. Just don't think its necessary but more necessary than Ferrand and Lebovic for sure. The other thing is what about the Oakwood bus? Will that still not hit Eglinton and then what? Will it not continue along east along Eglinton to the Allen stop? So again that means how many people are getting on at Oakwood to go west and get off at Dufferin, caledonia or Keele? More likely they will travel east which means the Oakwood bus will be available at that stop to go a whole 550 metres to the Allen and no need for LRT stop

 

[Admiral Beez]

IMO, the bigger issue is vehicle frequency, not stop spacing. When I want to take the subway at College, I can most days walk from my house near Carlton and east of Parliament St. and get to the subway before seeing the streetcar. On those days I don't care where the stop is, since I'm walking a distance anyway, but where the dang vehicle is.

 

[Hank]

IMO, the bigger issue is vehicle frequency, not stop spacing. When I want to take the subway at College, I can most days walk from my house near Carlton and east of Parliament St. and get to the subway before seeing the streetcar. On those days I don't care where the stop is, since I'm walking a distance anyway, but where the dang vehicle is.

I take the streetcar from Parliament and Carlton to College station every weekday morning (during the winter, at least), and it's just not true that "most days" you can walk to the station without a streetcar passing you (assuming that you're talking about normal commuting times and not the middle of the night). It's about a 15 minute walk, and to not have a streetcar pass you most times would mean that there would have to be a streetcar every 20-25 minutes or so, which is not the case. In the mornings I would say it averages 5-6 minutes between streetcars at most (the schedule suggests 4 minutes, but I'm not so sure I believe that).

Also, if your issue is waiting outside in the cold (which I hate myself), why not just use Nextbus? I rarely wait more than 30 seconds for a streetcar anymore (and if I do it's because the first one was packed and I had to wait for another...which is a complaint for another day).

 

[Hopkins123]

You clearly have not felt the frustration of St. Clair. I rreeealllyy hate to give this to Robbie, but it is a disaster if you're looking to use it as a 'rapid transit' option. In the morning, I have two options to go from St. Clair/Keele to St. Clair/Yonge: take the streetcar the whole way, or; a) take the bus south to Keele subway station, b) take the 2 line to Bloor-Yonge, and c) Take the 1 line north to St. Clair. The latter is 4 km longer, but is at least 10 minutes shorter.

We do not need another local-style St. Clair streetcar, we need a rapid LRT as Metrolinx as planned. Adding more stops is just giving fuel to Ford Nation.

Matching the Crosstown's stop spacing to that of the Bloor-Danforth subway is not recreating the St Clair streetcar disaster. It's making for a more useful, practical line. A Littles Blvd stop would be roughly in the same position as Lansdowne Stn is down at Bloor. The Westside Mall stop is roughly where Dundas West would be. This gives us 700 metres in-between Trethewey, Gabian Way, Littles Blvd and Dufferin.

I can only hope at this point that a future station box is roughed in for the area around Littles Blvd and the calls for fewer stops gets silenced. Unless running a parallel bus service across Eglinton is the TTC's intention.

 

[Johnny Au]

...and a station at Littles would mean a station for dead people (and for the living as well).

 

[Hopkins123]

...and a station at Littles would mean a station for dead people (and for the living as well).

But Christie Stn borders onto parkland that cannot be developed on. The Highway 407 Stn will also border a cemetary. Yet we cannot picture the subway network without either of these stops. A station box framed by Snider and Littles could involve an underground walkway to Caledonia and buses; meaning no lengthy detour of the 47 to try to adequately service the Westside Mall stop. And the City could always redevelop those commercial storefronts right at Littles into TOD.

 

[ehlow]

It's waaaay too late to make changes to the underground stations now anyways.

They are already constructing headwalls where the stations will be.

 

[Johnny Au]

But Christie Stn borders onto parkland that cannot be developed on. The Highway 407 Stn will also border a cemetary. Yet we cannot picture the subway network without either of these stops. A station box framed by Snider and Littles could involve an underground walkway to Caledonia and buses; meaning no lengthy detour of the 47 to try to adequately service the Westside Mall stop. And the City could always redevelop those commercial storefronts right at Littles into TOD.

I know, right.

High Park station is a few metres away from the namesake undevelopable parkland as well.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I am going to the next Metrolinx meeting in June to convince them to build Eglinton West from Jane to at least Renforth. It would not even cost much.

 

[innsertnamehere]

don't think thats going to work my man, Metrolinx doesn't exactly have much money to be throwing around all willy-nilly like that.

 

[ehlow]

I am going to the next Metrolinx meeting in June to convince them to build Eglinton West from Jane to at least Renforth. It would not even cost much.

Are these the Metrolinx board meetings? Are they open to the public?