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I really don’t understand how Union Station is so nice now but the condition of the Crosstown seems to poor in comparison. You’d think Metrolinx would be better at station maintenance given their experience with GO Transit.
Because Union Station is owned by the City - who did the renovations.

But those concrete staircases and platforms? I think that's Metrolinx. The new south concourse, which I think is Metrolinx, will presumably be completely different and low-quality.
 
When talking to normies about the Crosstown, their #1 complaint over and over again is station depth and layout. I’ve had multiple people bring it up to me unprompted.
Yup, it's the first impression I've heard from my non-transit fan friends, too.
 
When talking to normies about the Crosstown, their #1 complaint over and over again is station depth and layout. I’ve had multiple people bring it up to me unprompted.
This is absolutely a concern.

And the problem is that we can't have our cake and eat it too. The options are a huge amount of disruption over the length of the line to make it cut-and-cover and keep it closer to the surface, or localized disruption at the stations to bore the tunnels deeper.

And (unfortunately) it seems that the consensus is to choose the latter.

It’s wonderful that Line 5 is operational, but the design, construction and maintenance of these station just feels like complete amateur hour. I’m talking about everything from the depth of stations and poor layouts, to the water intrusion issue, the illegible maps and wayfinding, the poor accessibility, escalators and elevators out of order, dirty stations (the white walls are already looking filthy in many places). We even have entire entrances out of order.

I think that if this is what we can expect with the Ontario Line, we could be in big trouble. Metrolinx can get away with these issues with Line 5, becuase it’s suburban and relatively low ridership, but I don’t how the Ontario Line will perform with something like 200,000 people per day, if we can expect the stations to be this poorly designed, built and maintained. High ridership has a way of stress testing poor design.

It’s only been a few months, but I kind of get the impression that the TTC does a better job of maintaining the decade old TYSSE, than Metrolinx does with the 5 month old Crosstown. I’m nervous about what the condition of Line 5 will be in a decade.

It doesn’t help that Metrolinx doesn’t really engage in public communication, so who knows if they ever intend to fix these issues.
Keep in mind that Metrolinx is not the one maintaining the thing, it's Crosslinx.They are the private consortium who was paid to build it and maintain it.

And it was pretty patently obvious that this was what was going to happen. Nevermind the choices of materials and colours of finishes - having a private company providing your regular building maintenance was always going to give us this result. They are going to try and save and scrimp on every dollar, and if that means mopping station floors every 2 weeks instead of every 2 days, that's what they will do. And the result is what we see - stations that look filthy and disheveled because they aren't being cleaned often enough.

While the Ontario Line contracts are being written differently, I don't know if they are being written differently enough. We won't know if the cleaning regimen will be thorough enough until the line actually opens - and if the contract is written the way that the one for Eglinton is, it will already be too late to fix it.

Dan
 
Rode Line 5 today. Seems like the announcements have been fixed. The volume is now quiter so the speakers aren't exploding. The amount of announcements have also been reduced a bit. Also today the next train arrival screens were accurate.
Nice. Maybe someone read this forum. I shall check it out, as I have not ridden Crosstown since it opened, when it was IMO very loud and needlessly long.
 
Most of the stations on Line 5 are predominantly deeper underground than Line 1 and Line 2.
I'm aware; I'm reminded of this every weekday. It's roughly 120 steps from the surface to platform at Leaside and Laird stations. It's good exercise, especially when (according to Transit App) I have 1 min to get from the platform to the street to make a connection
 

I can't wait for millions of tax dollars to be spent on installing this at every station and stop. After all, we're starting at 0% design for such an immense task:

1781278811756.png
 
I’m talking about everything from the depth of stations and poor layouts,
The depth of the stations and the associated complex layouts are less a flaw and more the result of deliberate design choices. If you build really deep stations it takes longer to access the platform from the street, as anyone who as used the deep level lines on the London Underground, or the newer Tokyo Metro lines (especially the Oedo and Fukutoshin lines), will be familiar with often times annoyingly long process of having to take multiple escalators and walk through long corridors. FWIW the Fukutoshin line platforms at Shibuya station replaced the ground level Tokyu line platforms (this project is where the famous video of the workers moving the track overnight comes from) and people did complain that the new platforms made transfers overly onerous.

This is not something people in Toronto are really used to, and it may mean the Ontario Line will be less popular for short distance trips within downtown if it takes several minutes to get between the platform and the street at each end.
 
Those multi interchange stations in London and Tokyo have a legitimate excuse for deep platforms because there’s no choice. Hardly the case with a single line.

Unless the future Ontario Line interchange is at Mount Dennis how deep would that station end up being.
 
Just finished riding Line 5 end to end going east
8:30 Got to Cedervale station. Short time to connect from UPX.
14:55 At Yonge - I thought going from Cedervale to Yonge would be faster. (Original estimate Mount Dennis to Yonge was 12 minutes)
24.30 Don Mills - I think that's alright. Line 1 to Ontario Line is about 10 minutes.
43.27 Arrived at Kennedy. (Original estimate was 26 minutes from Yonge. Original estimate end to end was 38 minutes.)

This trip was slightly faster than my Line 6 trip end to end (44:10).

I wasn't paying proper attention but I think we only caught 2 red lights, one at Aga Khan (DVP) and the second at Ionview which isn't bad.

The slowdown going through intersections should be removed. I felt that the slowdown through intersections did more to slow down the train the slower speed between intersections.

After experiencing it, I would only be inclined to remove 2 stops (Hakim/Aga Khan - although a class field trip jumped on at Hakim which was the most passengers at a surface stop).

My only other note is that both here and on Finch, the bike lanes need to be fully separated. It would feel too dangerous in a suburban setting to do otherwise. I saw two cyclists on Finch on the sidewalk and one on Eglinton using the bike lane. @NorthernLight Do you know if a full separation is in any of the distant plans? Since we can't remove car lanes anymore, I think a full separation on Finch/Eglinton could be a good use of funds.

My non-rush hour Line 5 trip felt like it was 'a good service'. The service isn't that far off from their original estimates. Hoping that further changes are coming to make Line 5 even better.
 
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The horrific station depths on Line 5 really reframes the whole underground vs surface debate for me. Because if I lived at Victoria Park & Eglinton, I truly don’t know if I’d prefer navigating these cavernous underground stations, to dealing with a handful of red lights on the surface.

It makes our investment in the underground Crosstown West, in particular, look especially foolish. I’d 150% prefer to use ride a surface LRT there (as compared to underground), because there are hardly any stop lights, and it’s way easier to access trains from the surface. I’m also pretty damn sure that once you consider the time spent accessing platform level, the surface running LRT would’ve been just as fast as the underground option.

I live near the central part of Eglinton, and I regularly avoid taking Line 5 because of these station layouts. There’s usually some other TTC route available that’s more convenient to use.
 
I’m also pretty damn sure that once you consider the time spent accessing platform level, the surface running LRT would’ve been just as fast as the underground option.
Holy hyperbole... Deep subway stations are extremely common in cities with, get this, lots of subway lines. Toronto having effectively 2 lines or 2.5 lines doesn't put it in the big leagues for subway network size.

Not every station is as deep as Avenue. You're also kind of proving my point about Canadians being averse to walking, partly due to car-culture and cold winters. It's no wonder people push for stations at every intersection, because they hate walking. The trade-off is slower average speeds with narrow stop spacing.

Hindsight 20/20, Line 5 should have had much wider stop spacing considering its deep bore stations, and the fact that parallel buses still run.
 

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