JSF-1
Active Member
Here are the route alignment plates from the 1980's:
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JSF-1
Active Member
Finally these images are from a 1992 report as part of the "Let's Move" plan
A 6264
Active Member
Thanks for posting all that. When they showed diagrams of intersections, my first thought was, I'd love to see if they have a suggestion for Eglinton and Leslie! But it was really about the west end (Etobicoke) primarily.
A 6264
Active Member
Sometimes I think several of us are in agreement, and only think we're disagreeing with each other.
JSF-1
Active Member
Some final thoughts: Firstly they couldn't find the 1994 report so the final part of the Eglinton West story is missing.
The original 80's era LRT proposal didn't include a connection to the airport as at the time Metro was more focused on a possible extension to Mississauga City Centre and a diversion north to Pearson would preclude such an extension. As well the report noted that service to Pearson could be adequately handled by express buses from Renforth Station.
You'll also notice that the proposal for the surface section of the EW was to run down the middle of Eglinton Ave (which would be expanded to 6 lanes), although the stops at Kipling, Islington, and Royal York would be underground. So it would dive underground at major intersections to avoid them, but maintain grade-crossings with minor roads.
It may be hard to see but if you look at the plates you can see that the tunnelled section of the route were going to be very shallow (probably like Queens Quay Station). The route itself would only be tunnelled between Jane and West Side Mall, where it would come to the surface and run along the Belt Line ROW to a point just west of Marlee where it would dive underground again to serve Eglinton West Station.
Also you can see that the recommendation was for the line to be built as a BRT first and then converted to LRT when ridership demanded.
The line would have used coupled ALRV's running as a 4 car set with a frequency of 3.5 minutes which would offer a capacity of 10,000pphpd. This could be increased to 16,000pphph if cars ran every 2 minutes. BRT service would be served by 60' Articulated busses, and it was estimated the line would run 100 buses an hour.
By 1992 the route had solidified as an entirely underground route although there was still ambiguity about whether the line would be a heavy rail subway or LRT as both are referenced. That said it seems by that point they were leaning towards heavy rail as the report noted among other things that the TTC wanted to avoid introducing a new vehicle type to the network, and subway cars could be stored at Wilson Yard thus negating the need for a new Yard on the EW.
They did examine building elevated and at-grade alignments for the EW west of York Centre however these were dropped due to "Natural and Social Environment" concerns (you can probably figure out what that means....)
For whatever reason when examining a street level LRT in the 90's they omitted the grade separation possibility at major intersection like what was proposed in the 80's, and just looked at it as a pure street-level LRT (like the Crosstown in the east end).
Another thing to note is that by 1992 they hadn't actually figured out an alignment to the airport and 2 were being examined, one to Renforth and then north to the Airport, and another north up Hwy 27 and then west along Dixon to the Airport.
Finally it was recommended that the route be built in 2 phases, with phase one being a subway (of some description) between Eglinton West and York Centre. Service west of York Centre to Renforth would be handled by a busway until the extension to Renforth and the Airport could be built.
And of course in not one of these reports is there any mention of an eastern extension to Yonge and into Scarborough. Not saying it would never happen but from the lines conception to its cancellation there was never any consideration given to an eastern extension.
The original 80's era LRT proposal didn't include a connection to the airport as at the time Metro was more focused on a possible extension to Mississauga City Centre and a diversion north to Pearson would preclude such an extension. As well the report noted that service to Pearson could be adequately handled by express buses from Renforth Station.
You'll also notice that the proposal for the surface section of the EW was to run down the middle of Eglinton Ave (which would be expanded to 6 lanes), although the stops at Kipling, Islington, and Royal York would be underground. So it would dive underground at major intersections to avoid them, but maintain grade-crossings with minor roads.
It may be hard to see but if you look at the plates you can see that the tunnelled section of the route were going to be very shallow (probably like Queens Quay Station). The route itself would only be tunnelled between Jane and West Side Mall, where it would come to the surface and run along the Belt Line ROW to a point just west of Marlee where it would dive underground again to serve Eglinton West Station.
Also you can see that the recommendation was for the line to be built as a BRT first and then converted to LRT when ridership demanded.
The line would have used coupled ALRV's running as a 4 car set with a frequency of 3.5 minutes which would offer a capacity of 10,000pphpd. This could be increased to 16,000pphph if cars ran every 2 minutes. BRT service would be served by 60' Articulated busses, and it was estimated the line would run 100 buses an hour.
By 1992 the route had solidified as an entirely underground route although there was still ambiguity about whether the line would be a heavy rail subway or LRT as both are referenced. That said it seems by that point they were leaning towards heavy rail as the report noted among other things that the TTC wanted to avoid introducing a new vehicle type to the network, and subway cars could be stored at Wilson Yard thus negating the need for a new Yard on the EW.
They did examine building elevated and at-grade alignments for the EW west of York Centre however these were dropped due to "Natural and Social Environment" concerns (you can probably figure out what that means....)
For whatever reason when examining a street level LRT in the 90's they omitted the grade separation possibility at major intersection like what was proposed in the 80's, and just looked at it as a pure street-level LRT (like the Crosstown in the east end).
Another thing to note is that by 1992 they hadn't actually figured out an alignment to the airport and 2 were being examined, one to Renforth and then north to the Airport, and another north up Hwy 27 and then west along Dixon to the Airport.
Finally it was recommended that the route be built in 2 phases, with phase one being a subway (of some description) between Eglinton West and York Centre. Service west of York Centre to Renforth would be handled by a busway until the extension to Renforth and the Airport could be built.
And of course in not one of these reports is there any mention of an eastern extension to Yonge and into Scarborough. Not saying it would never happen but from the lines conception to its cancellation there was never any consideration given to an eastern extension.
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ayl5402
New Member
And destroy the Annex and numerous public parks?
The more you build for cars, more people would drive, therefore more traffic.
adma
Superstar
I figured my first "Metropass hack" this morning: instead of taking the northbound Weston Rd bus straight into Mt Dennis station, I scampered out of the bus at Weston & Eglinton and across the street into the W station entrance. Still a pretty long walk; but probably (at least at my brisk pace) less time to get to the Crosstown platform than had I stayed on the bus all the way to the loop and done a long walk from *there*...
hawc
Senior Member
Was just driving along Eglinton about 6:30PM. All the LRTs were packed completely full. Success!
christiesplits
Senior Member
Hoping to ride Line 5 from Mount Dennis to Kennedy for the first time this weekend. Which stations are the most visually interesting? I'll likely choose three.
Archii
New Member
Personally, Science Centre, Eglinton, and Cedarvale, but let us know which ones you end up choosing! Laird is cool too
ShonTron
Moderator
The only flyunder I would have liked to see would have been Victoria Park–Eglinton Square–Pharmacy, with a below-grade stop with stairs and elevators on both the VP and Eg Square sides. Would have avoided three lights and simplified traffic operations.
Otherwise the on-street operation in Scarborough isn’t that bad. But with all the lights in close proximity now, it does slow things by about three minutes more than necessary.
kotsy
Senior Member
Here's some of the shots I took on Sunday:
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
A friend reported a situation during this evening's commute.
They arrived to find a standoff occurring at Cedarvale station. The ATC would not drive into the station platform unless people stood clear off the platform edge. Apparently, a teenager was trolling by jumping on the platform edge whenever the vehicle attempted to drive into the station causing the vehicle to halt. My friend arrived at the same time as station staff did, whereupon the teenager fled. Supposedly, the train had been in the tunnel for 7 minutes by that point, and waited another 5 minutes at Cedarvale afterwards to ensure the track was clear.
I find it crazy that we built a brand new line with ATC but didn't put in platform screen doors. The human factor is easily one of the biggest source of delays on the existing rapid transit network, and it could have been largely mitigated.
They arrived to find a standoff occurring at Cedarvale station. The ATC would not drive into the station platform unless people stood clear off the platform edge. Apparently, a teenager was trolling by jumping on the platform edge whenever the vehicle attempted to drive into the station causing the vehicle to halt. My friend arrived at the same time as station staff did, whereupon the teenager fled. Supposedly, the train had been in the tunnel for 7 minutes by that point, and waited another 5 minutes at Cedarvale afterwards to ensure the track was clear.
I find it crazy that we built a brand new line with ATC but didn't put in platform screen doors. The human factor is easily one of the biggest source of delays on the existing rapid transit network, and it could have been largely mitigated.
hawc
Senior Member
lead82
Senior Member
I find it crazy that we seem to be the only city dealing with such things. How do other cities handle this as they have teenagers too. Why can’t we just manually override ATC and move the train slowly into the station.