[APTA-2048]

I find it crazy that we seem to be the only city dealing with such things. How do other cities handle this as they have teenagers too. Why can’t we just manually override ATC and move the train slowly into the station.

They have similar delays, you just don’t hear about them if you don’t use the system. New York for example has ample disruptions due to mischief. The most common, I noticed at least, was activating the emergency brakes on a train. Train surfing also became popular for a while.

 

[Westey]

The only flyunder I would have liked to see would have been Victoria Park–Eglinton Square–Pharmacy, with a below-grade stop with stairs and elevators on both the VP and Eg Square sides. Would have avoided three lights and simplified traffic operations.

Otherwise the on-street operation in Scarborough isn’t that bad. But with all the lights in close proximity now, it does slow things by about three minutes more than necessary.

How would this look if it went under Leslie, and then under Don Mills, then under DVP ramps, and then under VicPark/Pharmacy, and then under Kennedy - if you take the cumulative suggestion of the UT community. At some point you have to ask that if the majority of the line is grade-separated and it is going up and down like a yo-yo to get around problem spots - may as well build the whole thing as grade-separated.

 

[Inkarnate]

Here's some of the shots I took on Sunday:

View attachment 714512View attachment 714513View attachment 714514View attachment 714515View attachment 714516View attachment 714517View attachment 714518View attachment 714519View attachment 714520View attachment 714521

Bit off topic (and I rarely post to begin with) but I quite appreciate the creativity with your watermarks in the images. It’s almost like a Where’s Waldo of trying to find your name in each photo!

I do plan on riding the line end-to-end at some point in the near future, although I haven’t found time for it yet.

 

[lastcommodore]

I find it crazy that we built a brand new line with ATC but didn't put in platform screen doors. The human factor is easily one of the biggest source of delays on the existing rapid transit network, and it could have been largely mitigated.

Not only for human factors... much of the stations I visited on Sunday were cold- but in particular, the stations closest to the portals were freezing! Mount Dennis was so cold (On opening day they had a stand offering coffee- and I observed frozen coffee on the ground lol) and the entire station sans the waiting area in building no. 9 is exposed to the elements via... you guessed it... the line 5 platforms.

 

[LNahid2000]

Taken just now lol

 

[Voltz]

A friend reported a situation during this evening's commute.

They arrived to find a standoff occurring at Cedarvale station. The ATC would not drive into the station platform unless people stood clear off the platform edge. Apparently, a teenager was trolling by jumping on the platform edge whenever the vehicle attempted to drive into the station causing the vehicle to halt. My friend arrived at the same time as station staff did, whereupon the teenager fled. Supposedly, the train had been in the tunnel for 7 minutes by that point, and waited another 5 minutes at Cedarvale afterwards to ensure the track was clear.

I find it crazy that we built a brand new line with ATC but didn't put in platform screen doors. The human factor is easily one of the biggest source of delays on the existing rapid transit network, and it could have been largely mitigated.

That better not be a tictok trend,

I would have had platform screen doors at the four transfer stations for sure.

 

[McGillicuddy]

Not only for human factors... much of the stations I visited on Sunday were cold- but in particular, the stations closest to the portals were freezing! Mount Dennis was so cold (On opening day they had a stand offering coffee- and I observed frozen coffee on the ground lol) and the entire station sans the waiting area in building no. 9 is exposed to the elements via... you guessed it... the line 5 platforms.

For most of the line, this will improve over the coming years without intervention.

The subway system isn't heated, either: it just has a warmer baseline through decades of usage. (Radiant heat from people in the stations, train brakes generating heat, traction motors, escalators running, etc.) It takes time for this heat to raise the temperature of the ground around the stations. As it does, indoor temperatures will rise, too.

This effect can be so dramatic that there are parts of the London Underground which now run as hot as 45 degrees centigrade at the height of summer, despite being underground and well-protected from the elements: this is what a century of running a subway does to the ground temperature. (Modern systems like Eglinton manage the risk of extreme heat through ventilation and heat dissipation systems.)

As for Mount Dennis, that's always going to be a problem, the same as the platforms at Rosedale, Kennedy, Warden, etc.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I find it crazy that we built a brand new line with ATC but didn't put in platform screen doors.

I don’t think in all my global travels I’ve ever seen a tram line with platform doors. Would you want them on the above ground stops too? If not, why not?

Edit. Took some searching.

 

[dullturtle06]

To tunnel the line as you noted, how long to you figure the line be out of service from Laird to Don Mills??

How do you plan on providing service east of Laird and at the Laird station???

Who is going to pay for it and how much??

worth doing in conjunction with grade separating the golden mile. Turn back at Laird Station shuttle buses in dedicated lanes to Kennedy. Not worth it if only this intersection is to be fixed. Since there is no deep bore tunnel and it would be a cut and cover and elevated, I'd say 3-4 years for the eastern section to be grade separated, especially if 24 hrs construction is approved.

 

[nottoban]

No, but the same level of PPP/Metrolinx incompetence can only hinder. Which is why I added 20+ for MX. For sure, we *could* do it faster, but the same people claiming the upper governments would pay for it are the same people who forget that they do things poorly.

If we want subways built quickly, it would mean the feds and the province would have to fork over money with little input and keep at arms length. And with so many photo ops and campaign stump points, that’s not going to happen in our lifetimes.

The ongoing conjecture that P3s and 'Metrolinx incompetence' are the source of every issue, large or small, on these projects is growing tiresome. It's an easy answer but an implausible one, and belies a lack of understanding, or lack of interest in understanding, the root cause.

Yes, both the P3 model and Metrolinx incompetence have had impacts on this project. But, if Metrolinx incompetence is a primary driver of delays and overruns, we would have to believe that it consistently outsmarted the judgment of thousands of people across multiple organizations and disciplines, not just once, but repeatedly. For 15 years. Camman.

The larger issue sits above any single agency or project. Government contracts now account for a majority (approximately 80%) of the large civil infrastructure market in Canada. This has substantially reshaped industry behaviour. The limited number of capable firms have organized themselves around winning and administering public contracts because that is where the most money is. In a more functional market, those firms would compete on delivery speed, build quality, and productivity. Here, profit comes from winning the work and then protecting the margins as defined at contact award. The result is a deeply unproductive industry.

And, it goes without saying, this environment is a poor fit for AFP. AFP relies on competitive pressure and genuine risk exposure to drive efficiency and innovation. In a market dominated by a single buyer, that discipline weakens. What passes for innovation tends to be for the purposes of value engineering and margin protection, not better outcomes for the public. That is not inherently a flaw with P3s, but on the LRT projects this disconnect between delivery model and contract I don't think was adequately recognized.

 

[reaperexpress]

I don’t think in all my global travels I’ve ever seen a tram line with platform doors. Would you want them on the above ground stops too? If not, why not?

Edit. Took some searching.

Because the above ground stations are monitored by the eyes of the operator, not an electronic system that gives lots of false positives

 

[Burnt creek]

And, it goes without saying, this environment is a poor fit for AFP. AFP relies on competitive pressure and genuine risk exposure to drive efficiency and innovation. In a market dominated by a single buyer, that discipline weakens. What passes for innovation tends to be for the purposes of value engineering and margin protection, not better outcomes for the public. That is not inherently a flaw with P3s, but on the LRT projects this disconnect between delivery model and contract I don't think was adequately recognized.

100%! that is big part of it. In Canada, we have a relatively small private sector compared to other G20 nations. Canada is a market with very few players but big players so there is not much competition in the bidding process and its the same players all the time that are always in play. And they know that they will be favored because they know that politicians want to keep jobs in Canada. And that kills innovation, incentive to innovate and incentive to build a brand image. I also agree that there its too much of a tendency to look for that one simple scapegoat and point the finger at only that one source like the PPP.. PPP can work in the right environment and for projects that are repetitive and where the we are far along the learning curve (e.g.: schools, court houses, etc). Unlike transit projects. But we are getting there for transit . Bottom line, the culprits for poor delivery on infrastructure projects is very widespread.

 

[TwoWheelPoli]

For those of you Freedom users - like me - who couldn't get cell service in the underground stretches of Line 5, MobileSyrup reported this should be fixed "in a few days".

Freedom customers should see signal on Toronto's Line 5 in a 'few days'

After customers reported no signal on Toronto's new Line 5 Crosstown LRT, Freedom says it's working to activate coverage.

mobilesyrup.com

 

[lenaitch]

I'm not really up on urban rail but noticed in one of Kotsy's photos that the Line 5 signals are 'roadway oriented' (red on top, green on the bottom) rather that the traditional rail configuration of green on top. Is this typical for road adjacent LRTs now or is TTC changing over?

 

[hw621]

Was just driving along Eglinton about 6:30PM. All the LRTs were packed completely full. Success!

No! That means there is not enough capacity. Should have built a subway!