[micheal_can]

Another idea could be signage for right hand turns to make left hand turns. That would mean upgrading some side streets, but if signs were posted that would point how to go left, but only making right hand turns, it might be an easy solution.

 

[EllaW]

Saw lots of trains today - both directions

I am in and around the surface level of Eglinton all the time and there are constantly trains going in both directions for at least the past week or so.

 

[smallspy]

I assume your question is disingenuous, intended as a dismissal rather than true inquiry, but both sides of Eglinton from Victoria Park onwards are slated to be torn down and residential development put in. Now's our chance to require those developments to include the roads to reduce left turns off Eglinton. I expect you may reply the contrarian, to tell us why this cannot, will not or should not be done, but so be it.

It was a dismissal, as your idea is asinine. The last thing this city needs is more roads.

Dan

 

[Steve X]

They could simply move to a laggy left signal and let the “streetcar” through first.

 

[Undead]

If this city was actually focused on moving people around as efficiently as possible, we could make a lot of decisions that would accomplish this. But transit is for poor people, cars are for rich people, and so cars are prioritized. Can you imagine the angry calls into Newstalk 1010 from SUV drivers who had to wait at a stop light because the poors were allowed to go first? The suffering and waiting of transit riders is the point.

It's well known that the TTC is widely used by middle and upper middle class people; and many working poor drive. Cool it with the disingenuous posts.

 

[Sqazi]

It's well known that the TTC is widely used by middle and upper middle class people; and many working poor drive. Cool it with the disingenuous posts.

Widely known? Unless you can provide a source, this sounds very made up.

 

[Undead]

Widely known? Unless you can provide a source, this sounds very made up.

I'd need to go back and check, but it's been discussed on Urban Toronto before. Certainly Parkdalian's rhetoric is divorced from reality.

 

[cplchanb]

It's well known that the TTC is widely used by middle and upper middle class people; and many working poor drive. Cool it with the disingenuous posts.

Im on the eglinton 34 bus right now.... the demographics i observe on this bus is very contrary to your claims

 

[Undead]

Im on the eglinton 34 bus right now.... the demographics i observe on this bus is very contrary to your claims

Like I said, we can wait until we dig up the source, but if we're quoting anecdotes, then I'll just cancel out your observation with mine that I see plenty of suits on line 1 when I take it.

 

[cplchanb]

Like I said, we can wait until we dig up the source, but if we're quoting anecdotes, then I'll just cancel out your observation with mine that I see plenty of suits on line 1 when I take it.

Well.... we're talking about line 5 here on this debateabout signal priority and drivers complaining. Its pretty obvious what the demographics are. White suits on the 510 are irrelevant in this conversation.

 

[Undead]

From a 2023 TTC CEO report:

"of the 3.2 million average weekday boardings pre-COVID:

• 24% make less than $40K
• 23% make more than $100K

Which supports my point about plenty of middle class people using the TTC.

Another notable stat from that report which complicates the vapid "poor TTC rider, evil car user" narrative:

• 32% of TTC users did not own a car (suggesting that a supermajority of TTC users do have access to a car)

I know these are pre-COVID stats, but they still illustrate the point.

Well.... we're talking about line 5 here on this debateabout signal priority and drivers complaining. Its pretty obvious what the demographics are. White suits on the 510 are irrelevant in this conversation.

I didn't say anything about the 510. The point is the vapid narrative Parkdalian was pushing.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

"of the 3.2 million average weekday boardings pre-COVID:

• 24% make less than $40K
• 23% make more than $100K

Which supports my point about plenty of middle class people using the TTC.

Another notable stat from that report which complicates the vapid "poor TTC rider, evil car user" narrative:

• 32% of TTC users did not own a car (suggesting that a supermajority of TTC users do have access to a car)

I know these are pre-COVID stats, but they still illustrate the point.


I didn't say anything about the 510. The point is the vapid narrative Parkdalian was pushing.

Noticed when TV news reports on traffic congestion, there is usually only ONE person in each automobile, SUV, or truck doing the complaining, only the driver. They ignore that they are the ones causing the congestion. Not a chauffeur driving a passenger.

 

[Parkdalian]

From a 2023 TTC CEO report:

"of the 3.2 million average weekday boardings pre-COVID:

• 24% make less than $40K
• 23% make more than $100K

Which supports my point about plenty of middle class people using the TTC.

I would argue that these stats actually prove my point, but I don't think we need to get into an argument about what constitutes "middle class" in Toronto. (40K barely pays for a 1 bedroom rental in Toronto...)

But I defer to your judgment. You are obviously correct. Signal priority is not a class-based issue. I look forward to all of the Scarborough city councillors proudly stepping up to support it on the Eglinton Crosstown, just as they have proudly supported sixplexes and homeless shelters in their neighbourhoods.

 

[Undead]

I would argue that these stats actually prove my point, but I don't think we need to get into an argument about what constitutes "middle class" in Toronto. (40K barely pays for a 1 bedroom rental in Toronto...)

I don't disagree. Our over the top property market makes small change out of a $100,000 salary, which is bonkers.

But we're using the stats/definitions as they're provided for us. If we start debating the definitions, it becomes even harder, if not entirely meaningless, to discuss the rest.

And even if we accept the worst case scenario i.e. a 100k+ income required to be middle class, this still means a significant number of TTC users are middle class.

But I defer to your judgment. You are obviously correct. Signal priority is not a class-based issue. I look forward to all of the Scarborough city councillors proudly stepping up to support it on the Eglinton Crosstown, just as they have proudly supported sixplexes and homeless shelters in their neighbourhoods.

Respectfully, this sentiment is exaggerated.

The reality is probably more that the same people will alternate between being stuck in the LRT as SUVs turn left; and being those same SUV drivers blocking the LRT.

edit: I could have been more measured in my choice of words, apologies for the heat.

 

[ShonTron]

For the record, 'Jughandles' were originally proposed on Eglinton east of Victoria Park, and I'm one of the people who spiked that idea, because it creates a pedestrian-hostile environment.

See this post........ from 2008!

Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

IIRC, TTC wanted a BRT on Eglinton and Subway on Sheppard. Rae instead funded a shorter subway on Sheppard and shorter subway on Eglinton. Harris actually did the right thing in cancelling Eglinton as a subway. Numbers didn't support it then and they still don't. Sadly, we never did get the...

toronto.skyrisecities.com

Jughandles were also proposed on the west extension at Martin Grove, prior to the current design iteration.

https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1668610621/Images/Metrolinx/ECWE_EPR_2020_Addendum.pdf see p. 78

Martin Grove would have been one of the few places where jughandles would have made good sense in Toronto