[Mind_the_gap]

Aside from the South-Side alignment at Leslie, I'm equally annoyed they got rid of the "Michigan Lefts" that were originally planned, but Torontonians wouldn't understand...

(Good video)

Short of gates and proper TSP, these would've really helped.

 

[bearcat]

Aside from the South-Side alignment at Leslie, I'm equally annoyed they got rid of the "Michigan Lefts" that were originally planned, but Torontonians wouldn't understand...

(Good video)

Short of gates and proper TSP, these would've really helped.

I still don't understand why the south-side alignment didn't happen... I haven't been following the LRT construction closely in the past, does anyone have a definitive explanation?

 

[CapitalSeven]

Everyone in Toronto lit their hair on fire about the Michigan left idea and proclaimed it could never work, without every examining scientifically whether it could or not, or thinking up some tweaks that might improve it.

 

[Voltz]

I still don't understand why the south-side alignment didn't happen... I haven't been following the LRT construction closely in the past, does anyone have a definitive explanation?

The plan was going to be changed to build the tunnel all the way to Don Mills, since it was easier to launch the TBM's from there, plus the obvious benefits to the operations of the line. But the local community group loudly complained about losing the stop at Leslie, and it seemed like the Liberals were going to lose the upcoming election, so they had to revert back to the already planned alignment and award the construction contract for the eastern tunnels. Of course, the same community group then later complained about construction activity on the surface at the portal.

Yes, it should have been planned differently from the start, but they didn't.

 

[drum118]

Only because of history. I'm sure if Metrolinx was starting a commuter line today it would be in the standard grey and black.

Nah, it would be black and blue or black and purple from been kick around. Then it could be any colour since they are colour blind.

 

[bearcat]

The plan was going to be changed to build the tunnel all the way to Don Mills, since it was easier to launch the TBM's from there, plus the obvious benefits to the operations of the line. But the local community group loudly complained about losing the stop at Leslie, and it seemed like the Liberals were going to lose the upcoming election, so they had to revert back to the already planned alignment and award the construction contract for the eastern tunnels. Of course, the same community group then later complained about construction activity on the surface at the portal.

Yes, it should have been planned differently from the start, but they didn't.

That doesn't explain it though. Why does the Leslie stop require the LRT to run in the center of the road between the two portals and not on the south side? I understand the Leslie stop required the LRT to be on the surface there, but why couldn't the ends of the tunnels and exits from the portals be done with a slight curve to the south and have the LRT run on the south side so there is no conflict with with Eglinton & Leslie intersection. Is there some technical reason that could not be done?

 

[Steve X]

The south side alignment would need an EA change and either there needs of a grade separated walkway plus elevator(s) to access each platform OR a traffic signal for pedestrian to cross the tracks.
One elevator is needed if they enter with a central platform.

If they really want to improve this intersection, they just need to excavate a tunnel under the intersection for left turning traffic.

They just need a tunnel shown in orange with a traffic signal at the south end either allow both direction. Regular traffic movement would stay on the surface shown in green. Block of track access shown in red. Finally a pedestrian bridge should be built in purple with 2 elevators/stairs to access the platforms. The tracks stay where they are.

 

[bearcat]

The south side alignment would need an EA change and either there needs of a grade separated walkway plus elevator(s) to access each platform OR a traffic signal for pedestrian to cross the tracks.
One elevator is needed if they enter with a central platform.

If they really want to improve this intersection, they just need to excavate a tunnel under the intersection for left turning traffic.
View attachment 650357
They just need a tunnel shown in orange with a traffic signal at the south end either allow both direction. Regular traffic movement would stay on the surface shown in green. Block of track access shown in red. Finally a pedestrian bridge should be built in purple with 2 elevators/stairs to access the platforms. The tracks stay where they are.

My understanding why this station was planned to be cancelled was in part because the ridership was forecasted to be low. So I feel like a signalized crossing for pedestrians would have sufficed.

Yes, sure a tunnel like that is a way to fix it. Is that really easier then doing an EA change in the first place to not deal with it? I guess those are the more nuanced details I genuinely don't know.

Honestly I wonder if it is possible to elevate the LRT over Leslie instead, I am not sure if it would be too steep a climb from under the railway bridge to the east, but the intersection is downhill from the bridge, so perhaps not, maybe one day.

Who knows, maybe there will be some magical transit priority actually implemented on the line and none of this would be needed.

 

[ThenWhat]

The plan was going to be changed to build the tunnel all the way to Don Mills, since it was easier to launch the TBM's from there, plus the obvious benefits to the operations of the line. But the local community group loudly complained about losing the stop at Leslie, and it seemed like the Liberals were going to lose the upcoming election, so they had to revert back to the already planned alignment and award the construction contract for the eastern tunnels. Of course, the same community group then later complained about construction activity on the surface at the portal.

Yes, it should have been planned differently from the start, but they didn't.

Yes, I have also heard that version. But what community group was that? There were just trees and Toyota dealership around the planned Leslie stop at the time.

 

[nfitz]

Yes, I have also heard that version. But what community group was that? There were just trees and Toyota dealership around the planned Leslie stop at the time.

I thought it was more about the Ferrand stop at the time; but same EA change proposal.

We certainly discussed it at length about 1000 pages ago. And have discussed the south-side alignment at Leslie numerous times now.

 

[bearcat]

I thought it was more about the Ferrand stop at the time; but same EA change proposal.

We certainly discussed it at length about 1000 pages ago. And have discussed the south-side alignment at Leslie numerous times now.

I don't doubt this lol, but this thread is 1772 pages long and almost 17 years old, I was just hoping for a summary .

 

[nfitz]

I don't doubt this lol, but this thread is 1772 pages long, I was just hoping for a summary .

I'm not sure anyone remembers the deal about the EA, and why Metrolinx walked away from all their proposed changes. I don't remember being the election at the time, but they were certainly spooked, and time was of the essence - with the TBM already in the ground.

The centre alignment was in the first EA, and we've been saying it's silly here for 15 years now. I've suggested, but no one else is on board, that they squeeze a third vehicle lane on the north side for eastbound turning traffic only. And then eliminate the intersection for cars staying on the south side. Cross the traffic over at the two Portals. Whether the rail overpass is up for that kind of modification I don't know.

 

[Voltz]

That doesn't explain it though. Why does the Leslie stop require the LRT to run in the center of the road between the two portals and not on the south side? I understand the Leslie stop required the LRT to be on the surface there, but why couldn't the ends of the tunnels and exits from the portals be done with a slight curve to the south and have the LRT run on the south side so there is no conflict with with Eglinton & Leslie intersection. Is there some technical reason that could not be done?

It could have been done, they just didn't. Another explanation is all the time that was wasted on Rob Ford's plan to have it underground all the way to Kennedy, plenty of time was lost which could have been used to modify the alignment at Leslie, and make other changes.

Another Idea I would consider now is raising the eastbound lanes at Leslie with a bridge over the LRT tracks and westbound lanes to Leslie street.

 

[robmausser]

That doesn't explain it though. Why does the Leslie stop require the LRT to run in the center of the road between the two portals and not on the south side? I understand the Leslie stop required the LRT to be on the surface there, but why couldn't the ends of the tunnels and exits from the portals be done with a slight curve to the south and have the LRT run on the south side so there is no conflict with with Eglinton & Leslie intersection. Is there some technical reason that could not be done?

No, but for some stupid reason the original plan was for it to run in the centre of the road. Why it was designed that first way, we will never really know. Incompetence is the best answer.

Once they noticed the mistake, it became a "too many cooks" situation, as it often does in government. Some people then said "well why dont we just take this opportunity to tunnel all the way to Don Mills, since it has advantages?" then some people said "but the cost will be too much for a Leslie stop", and then the Leslie stop people said "dont kill our stop" and then in the corner a cracked out Rob Ford said "SUBWAYS SUBWAYS SUBWAYS"

So the decision was left to just leave it be because opening up just created arguments and opportunities to make the situation worse.

Welcome to government!

 

[robmausser]

Yes, I have also heard that version. But what community group was that? There were just trees and Toyota dealership around the planned Leslie stop at the time.

It was the condo developers around the area. The plans for those condos have been in the works for a long time.