[sche]

I think this examples misses the fact that this is not how New Yorkers interact with the subway system. A subway station here isn’t thought of as a destination but as a point on a network—like an intersection on the road network. Stations don’t really have names in the same way they do in Canadian systems; the “name,” such as it is, is merely a description of where the station is. You’d never get confused about which 125th street station to go to because you’d be thinking of it in the context of the line you were on. Just as it wouldn’t be confusing to, say, direct someone to take the 501 streetcar to Yonge, it isn’t confusing to tell someone to take the A train to 125th street.

I’d much prefer we followed a similar approach in Toronto vs coming up with unique “destination” station names every time a potential conflict arises. If I’m travelling along Eglinton and I come to a Bathurst Station there should be no confusion—I’m at Bathurst and Eglinton.

Yes, I am aware of how the New York/Chicago naming scheme works, and of course a New Yorker who uses the subway will know as well. But will a suburbanite from New Jersey who uses the subway twice a year know how this works? Or an infrequent user who has a poor sense of direction and wants to blindly follow Google Maps? What about a tourist? Most of these people do not know exactly where the subway lines are located relative to the streets above or relative to the other subway lines and they do not know what the naming scheme for the stations is. Someone like this will just be confused when they see "125 St Station" show up three times on Google Maps.

Even if I type something like "125 St station 1 train" into Google Maps, it still gives me the wrong stations. So even someone who understands how the naming scheme works, but is unfamiliar with the area and wants to rely on Google Maps, could be led the wrong way. Apple Maps only ever shows one of the 125 St stations when searching. I can't even figure out how to get the correct one to show up if I wanted to navigate to a station instead of an intersection or address, and didn't want to find it on the map. And 125 St is not even the worst example - at least all of them are on the same 125 St. There are numerous examples where there are duplicates in different boroughs, or even duplicates on the same line - e.g. the R train serves a 36th St in Queens and a different 36th St in Brooklyn!

 

[sche]

Forest Hill is one of the better known ones, along with the Annex. But for every such neighbourhood that is well known, there are mountains of neighbourhoods that are obscure, to say nothing of the fact that which area belongs to which neighbourhood appears to be highly flexible and subject to interpretation.

For example, if we go by Google Maps, Eglinton-Scarlett is situated in an area called Westmount, Islington and Royal York form the boundaries of Royal York Gardens to the north of Eglinton. Islington and Kipling form Richmond Gardens to the north, but this is also overlapped by an area called Willowridge-Martin Grove-Ridgeview, which encapsulates, also, Richmond Gardens and Royal York Gardens. Conversely, Scarlett, Royal York, and Islington, with Eglinton as the north boundary, also belong to Edenbridge-Humber Valley, while the area along Kipling is also known as Princess-Rosethorn and Princess Anne Manor. And many of the neighbourhoods that are shown on Google Maps are contrary to the city of Toronto's official neighbourhood database, too.

Is this really useful to wayfinding? Surely this would cause much more confusion than Eglinton-Islington, Eglinton-Kipling, etc. Neighbourhood names only work when the places are well known, especially if the idea with this is catering to out of towners.

I'm generally in the camp of using intersection names, but I don't have that much of an issue with the neighbourhood names.

Neighbourhood names are useful if they are used, and they are used if they are useful. Once Cedarvale and Fairbank (both names I had previously never heard of before ECLRT) are opened and start being printed onto every TTC map and announced on every Line 5 train, no doubt more people will start using these names for these areas. Simply by using the names, the neighbourhoods referred to by those names will become more specific, useful, and commonly used. Whether doing this good or not is I think a matter of personal preference.

This happened a lot in London for example - stations built in nondescript areas, or undeveloped areas were sometimes given very arbitrary or obscure names, and the neighbourhood became named after the station. Examples include Archway, named because there was an arch bridge nearby, Swiss Cottage, named after a pub, or Queensbury, which was just made up.

Or what about circumstances where two stations are in the same neighbourhood? Mount Dennis station is in Mount Dennis, but so is the future Jane-Eglinton (Eglinton Flats can't be, because it runs afoul of the same trouble that Dundas and Dundas West co-existing do). Every neighbourhood I mentioned in my above paragraphs also encapsulates at least two major concession roads as well. Which one gets priority for the neighbourhood name?

There's no need to come up with some kind of systematic way to prioritize, just pick one and use it, as long as there's no duplicates. Eglinton Flats is fine, as is Mount Dennis West, as is Jane-Eglinton. Even using public consultation to pick one would be fine - just ask people living in the area. This seems like a simple and easy way to make public consultation more meaningful.

 

[Cyrobyte]

May the 4th be with you...

...in 3 months, it'll be August. Still waiting for the "official" announcement of the announcement for opening of Line 5.

It’s not opening this year.

 

[nfitz]

If the name is unfamiliar to some, it will grow on people. In a century or so, they'd think it weird to be called anything else.

The city last updated neighbourhood names in 2022. Go to https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/data-research-maps/neighbourhoods-communities/neighbourhood-profiles/about-toronto-neighbourhoods/ for the current list.

One thing I noticed on that list is that Eglinton Avenue is a dividing line. Different neighbourhoods on each side.

The city's "naming" is hardly consistent with common usage. It never was. I wouldn't take that too seriously.

It’s not opening this year.

I wouldn't make such absolute statements without a supporting reference. There's no evidence of this.

 

[ARG1]

I'm generally in the camp of using intersection names, but I don't have that much of an issue with the neighbourhood names.

Neighbourhood names are useful if they are used, and they are used if they are useful. Once Cedarvale and Fairbank (both names I had previously never heard of before ECLRT) are opened and start being printed onto every TTC map and announced on every Line 5 train, no doubt more people will start using these names for these areas. Simply by using the names, the neighbourhoods referred to by those names will become more specific, useful, and commonly used. Whether doing this good or not is I think a matter of personal preference.

This happened a lot in London for example - stations built in nondescript areas, or undeveloped areas were sometimes given very arbitrary or obscure names, and the neighbourhood became named after the station. Examples include Archway, named because there was an arch bridge nearby, Swiss Cottage, named after a pub, or Queensbury, which was just made up.


There's no need to come up with some kind of systematic way to prioritize, just pick one and use it, as long as there's no duplicates. Eglinton Flats is fine, as is Mount Dennis West, as is Jane-Eglinton. Even using public consultation to pick one would be fine - just ask people living in the area. This seems like a simple and easy way to make public consultation more meaningful.

Don't forget Seven Sisters, which was named after a group of 7 elm trees in Tottenham.

 

[evandyk]

Yes the Crosstown moniker was dropped though I cannot speak to the latter.

Although there is still a thread for the crosstown extension...

 

[TOtramz]

This post was inspired by a post in another thread and I'm still a bit confused on the timeline of events for the opening of the line.

After revenue demonstration for a month (which should start soon), they can announce a 3 month timeline for opening.
If they have to announce an opening date by June of this year for a September opening, then the RSD would have to start relatively soon to make a September opening possible?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

This post was inspired by a post in another thread and I'm still a bit confused on the timeline of events for the opening of the line.

After revenue demonstration for a month (which should start soon), they can announce a 3 month timeline for opening.
If they have to announce an opening date by June of this year for a September opening, then the RSD would have to start relatively soon to make a September opening possible?

How about a "soft opening" of Line 5 a month before the "real opening"? No transfers issued or accepted. Sure that some of us would "volunteer" as a "unhoused person".

 

[Amare]

How about a "soft opening" of Line 5 a month before the "real opening"? No transfers issued or accepted. Sure that some of us would "volunteer" as a "unhoused person".

The TTC has recently invited some privates groups on some runs along the line (pre-designated sections). That's about as "soft" as an opening that we'll be seeing.

 

[Steve X]

I was driving along Eglinton early in the morning today. Not a sign of any train activities. If they aren't fully simulating service soon, there is no hope for a September opening.

 

[Cyrobyte]

Didn't they say that the full service testing period would last for three months? If so, even if it started today this line will not open until August.

EDIT: Actually, the testing period is supposed to be 30 days but Metrolinx said that they will announce the opening date three months in advance.

 

[toonderly]

EDIT: Actually, the testing period is supposed to be 30 days but Metrolinx said that they will announce the opening date three months in advance.

When was the last time they confirmed that timeline? I mean based on what they have to do it would seem to make sense that that 3 month window would make a logical point where they are confident of the opening date, but I thought that in 2023 they promised to give us updates every two months and I don't recall that happening more than once or twice since then.

 

[A 6264]

It’s not opening this year.

I wouldn't make such absolute statements without a supporting reference. There's no evidence of this.

If the name is unfamiliar to some, it will grow on people. In a century or so, they'd think it weird to be called anything else.

The city's "naming" is hardly consistent with common usage. It never was. I wouldn't take that too seriously.


I wouldn't make such absolute statements without a supporting reference. There's no evidence of this.

Evidence: 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024?

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

I wouldn't make such absolute statements without a supporting reference. There's no evidence of this.

Evidence: 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024?

The drivers are trained and the TTC is doing their final prep work to take over operations. Barring something absolutely catastrophic it's opening this year.

I was driving along Eglinton early in the morning today. Not a sign of any train activities. If they aren't fully simulating service soon, there is no hope for a September opening.

given my experience with the opening prep in Waterloo, they are likely giving everything a onceover before Revenue Service Demonstration to ensure everything is optimal. Some of the things they did in Waterloo was do all the regular routine maintenance on the vehicles, often ahead of when it would normally be scheduled, and run the vehicle trucks through the wheel lathe to bring the wheels back to their optimal profile. Basically eliminate as many possible points of failure ahead of the start of RSD

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Occupancy or use of the facilities can start with some parts incomplete. Many condos and housing subdivisions had occupancy while they were still working on landscaping and interior adjustments.