[smallspy]

Can they actually operate full service though with only two classes, or will it be a "phased opening"? One of the reasons we still don't have Sunday service on line 2 here in Ottawa was an operator shortage

There are phases within the operating contract between the TTC and Metrolinx, but not in this context. The phases are more akin to headways and hours-of-service improvements over the term of the 30 year contract.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no clause within the contract that would allow the TTC to operate the service only on certain days of the week as Ottawa did.

So yes, it would seem that there are enough operators in the first two sets of classes alone to run service on day 1.

Dan

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Is the TTC planning to continue the existing bus routes for any period of time after the line opens? I know the 34 will run the whole length of the route (I assume at a lower frequency than 34/32 today) I was just wondering if the TTC typically waits a couple months in case things go awry.

 

[nfitz]

Is the TTC planning to continue the existing bus routes for any period of time after the line opens? I know the 34 will run the whole length of the route (I assume at a lower frequency than 34/32 today) I was just wondering if the TTC typically waits a couple months in case things go awry.

With the large change in routes, I don't see how they have any choice but to change the entire thing on Day 1. How would you deal with the ones that will change routings?

Which impacted bus route do you use?

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Which impacted bus route do you use?

None, my visits to the GTA rarely go to Eglinton anymore, although I used to visit a family member at Yonge and Eglinton a lot.

I was just interested in the comparison, since the TTC is far more experienced opening lines than Ottawa how long it takes them to do it. I feel like we're doing it wrong over here.

 

[Steve X]

Is the TTC planning to continue the existing bus routes for any period of time after the line opens? I know the 34 will run the whole length of the route (I assume at a lower frequency than 34/32 today) I was just wondering if the TTC typically waits a couple months in case things go awry.

It seems like the day the line opens, the new routing would be in place to connect to the new stations. I suppose they’ll make temporary adjustments if the opening day doesn’t align with the start of a board period. That was the case for the TYSSE too.

 

[kaptrice]

There are phases within the operating contract between the TTC and Metrolinx, but not in this context. The phases are more akin to headways and hours-of-service improvements over the term of the 30 year contract.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no clause within the contract that would allow the TTC to operate the service only on certain days of the week as Ottawa did.

So yes, it would seem that there are enough operators in the first two sets of classes alone to run service on day 1.

Dan

Isn't it the case that opening day will jump straight to service level 6 anyway? That's what I remember, at least.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

It seems like the day the line opens, the new routing would be in place to connect to the new stations. I suppose they’ll make temporary adjustments if the opening day doesn’t align with the start of a board period. That was the case for the TYSSE too.

Thanks, the way Ottawa has done it has been to do a major rework of the entire bus network each time across the city, but the delay been the line opening and the route changes has been months. They did minor adjustments on opening to existing routes.

REM in Montreal is forcing similar changes, as it has non compete rules, basically forcing you to take REM if there was a competing alternative route

There's also an element of what I would call fear and hesitation in pulling the trigger.

Toronto's changes to the bus network seem much more localized, but I imagine the crosstown will make a huge shift in travel patterns, so wasn't sure if there was a grander bus network plan.

 

[smallspy]

Isn't it the case that opening day will jump straight to service level 6 anyway? That's what I remember, at least.

I can't recall precisely which one was to be operated on day 1, but it is well above what were contracted to be the initial stages of operation, yes.

Dan

 

[6ixGod]

Does anyone else feel like when Line 5 opens it’s going to be plagued with overcrowding? Maybe I’m wrong on this one, but with all the condo development and growth that has occurred since this was FIRST announced, it certainly looks that way to me.

 

[EllaW]

Does anyone else feel like when Line 5 opens it’s going to be plagued with overcrowding? Maybe I’m wrong on this one, but with all the condo development and growth that has occurred since this was FIRST announced, it certainly looks that way to me.

At least on the aboveground part of the line, none of the many proposed condos have opened or even broken ground yet

 

[christiesplits]

Does anyone else feel like when Line 5 opens it’s going to be plagued with overcrowding? Maybe I’m wrong on this one, but with all the condo development and growth that has occurred since this was FIRST announced, it certainly looks that way to me.

Not on opening day, but based on the plans for development on the Golden Mile, it could be a concern in the not so distant future.

 

[PL1]

Not on opening day, but based on the plans for development on the Golden Mile, it could be a concern in the not so distant future.

Hopefully by the time many of the eastern developments are complete, the Ontario line will be open to act as a syphon

 

[nfitz]

Does anyone else feel like when Line 5 opens it’s going to be plagued with overcrowding? Maybe I’m wrong on this one, but with all the condo development and growth that has occurred since this was FIRST announced, it certainly looks that way to me.

No.

The passenger projections were based on exactly the kind of growth we are seeing. And even in the 2030s were less than 6,000 per hour per direction (if I remember correctly at Cedarvale - but similar at Eglinton-Yonge). That can be accomplished with 12 trains an hour - once every 5 minutes (300 seconds). Even with the current rolling stock, Metrolinx wants to run them every 190 seconds. That alone gives a capacity of 9,300 per hour per direction.

And the initial trains are only going to be 2-cars - and it's built for 3-cars. So worst-come-to-worst (best-come-to-best!) they buy more cars, and that increases capacity by another 50% - to give almost 14,000 per hour per direction. Far more than the estimated demand.

And then that's still based on 3'10" frequencies. What's the minimum frequency they can achieve with the current layout and signalling. 2'30" (anyone? I'm not sure)? That's 17,640 an hour.

There zero issue of overcrowding, if they choose to run service frequently enough.

We've discussed this several times previously, earlier in this thread.

 

[bearcat]

No.

The passenger projections were based on exactly the kind of growth we are seeing. And even in the 2030s were less than 6,000 per hour per direction (if I remember correctly at Cedarvale - but similar at Eglinton-Yonge). That can be accomplished with 12 trains an hour - once every 5 minutes (300 seconds). Even with the current rolling stock, Metrolinx wants to run them every 190 seconds. That alone gives a capacity of 9,300 per hour per direction.

And the initial trains are only going to be 2-cars - and it's built for 3-cars. So worst-come-to-worst (best-come-to-best!) they buy more cars, and that increases capacity by another 50% - to give almost 14,000 per hour per direction. Far more than the estimated demand.

And then that's still based on 3'10" frequencies. What's the minimum frequency they can achieve with the current layout and signalling. 2'30" (anyone? I'm not sure)? That's 17,640 an hour.

There zero issue of overcrowding, if they choose to run service frequently enough.

We've discussed this several times previously, earlier in this thread.

I am just hoping the eastern section that's on street will with traffic signals will not be an impediment to running more frequent trains. As that's the section that runs through Golden Mile.

I am legitimately worried about how well that section will work. I don't thinks there is really any other line in the GTA that transitions from a fully grade separated section that is essentially a metro to an on street one.

I live near Spadina and never take the Spadina streetcar as the Spadina streetcar is soooooo slow with bunching, and I am really hoping the Eglinton Crosstown LRT will be better.

I am sure this topic has been beaten to death in this thread. I think we just have to wait and see how everything works in practice.

 

[TOtramz]

Are there currently enough trains to run 3 car trains? I wonder if there would be difficulties buying more flexity trains given that Bombardier is no more and the previous issues with delivering the Flexity vehicles.