[nfitz]

I've never seen anyone fall and be knocked unconscious when a streetcar did a sudden lane change.

To be fair my issue mostly with non grade separated transit then the speed of trains. I am from Montreal where we just got the REM. Ontario Line would compare but smaller in scale and wish Toronto were building more like the REM.

I'm not sure the REM is really that comparable to Ontario Line. It's just that we'll integrated into the urban structure, other than Central, McGill, and the Blue Line interchanges.

The Ontario Line is much more urban, more comparable to existing Toronto and Montreal subway lines. At least the first phase. There's certainly a lot more planned, potentially a loop around Toronto up to the 407 and then west to Pearson and back downtown. With branches to Oshawa and Oakville. That may be bigger than REM, though I don't know what future phases are envisioned there. Equipment might be similar, but not the network and operations.

Much of REM is more comparable to the 5 (maybe 6 if Milton gets funded) GO rail lines they are upgrading to electrified frequent service with more urban stations. Lakeshore GO will be a very different beast with trains every 4 or 5 minutes.

 

[canucks2030]

I've never seen anyone fall and be knocked unconscious when a streetcar did a sudden lane change.

I'm not sure the REM is really that comparable to Ontario Line. It's just that we'll integrated into the urban structure, other than Central, McGill, and the Blue Line interchanges.

The Ontario Line is much more urban, more comparable to existing Toronto and Montreal subway lines. At least the first phase. There's certainly a lot more planned, potentially a loop around Toronto up to the 407 and then west to Pearson and back downtown. With branches to Oshawa and Oakville. That may be bigger than REM, though I don't know what future phases are envisioned there. Equipment might be similar, but not the network and operations.

Much of REM is more comparable to the 5 (maybe 6 if Milton gets funded) GO rail lines they are upgrading to electrified frequent service with more urban stations. Lakeshore GO will be a very different beast with trains every 4 or 5 minutes.

I compare it to Ontario Line because the frequency will be approx the same, driver less, screen door, same kind of trains (somewhat) acting like a metro etc. GO not frequent enough at least not for a long time. Like Ontario Line, REM will connect areas that were challenging to access in the city. REM and Ontario line are much closer peoples realize. However Ontario Line smaller in scope with no future phases confirmed. I consider GO Unique in Canada with no comparator. It’s trully a Toronto gem. To go back with Eglinton I fear the non grade separated portion will hold back the line. But it’s definitely a project we will have to wait and see. If one project can prove me wrong it’s this one. Cannot wait to test it.

 

[afransen]

I compare it to Ontario Line because the frequency will be approx the same, driver less, screen door, same kind of trains (somewhat) acting like a metro etc. GO not frequent enough at least not for a long time. Like Ontario Line, REM will connect areas that were challenging to access in the city. REM and Ontario line are much closer peoples realize. However Ontario Line smaller in scope with no future phases confirmed. I consider GO Unique in Canada with no comparator. It’s trully a Toronto gem. To go back with Eglinton I fear the non grade separated portion will hold back the line. But it’s definitely a project we will have to wait and see. If one project can prove me wrong it’s this one. Cannot wait to test it.

REM is far lower capacity, too. It's more of a regional service than a true subway/metro like Ontario Line. It's an interesting model for Toronto to consider for certain applications.

 

[dowlingm]

The operator probably prefers 80kph max. They can run ~2 to 3 fewer vehicles/drivers and maintain the same overall line capacity.

Irrespective of operator preference, 60km/h is the maximum permitted speed on the Eglinton surface section, by direction of city council.

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2021/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-164884.pdf

Same for Finch West: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2021/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-168557.pdf

I do wonder how well LFLRVs could sustain all day every day 80km/h running/accelerating/braking over an entire alignment before wear and tear became an issue.

 

[nfitz]

I do wonder how well LFLRVs could sustain all day every day 80km/h running/accelerating/braking over an entire alignment before wear and tear became an issue.

How is the wear and tear on those cars that have been operating at 70 km/hr for a few years now?

 

[nfitz]

I compare it to Ontario Line because the frequency will be approx the same, driver less, screen door, same kind of trains (somewhat) acting like a metro etc.

Ontario Line 3 is a Metro, as they call them in some other places. Even the official REM website brands REM as LRT rather than Subway. Though I'm not sure I agree with that.

GO not frequent enough at least not for a long time.

Not the entire network - but they should have 85 km of the Lakeshore line up before the Ontario Line opens. But it's true that the other 116 km of Lakeshore isn't happening anytime soon. And it's not clear what timeframe for frequent service is on 125 km for the 3 electrified lines.

I'm not sure why the Ontario Line is not comparable, 7 years from opening, but GO Lakeshore isn't.

However Ontario Line smaller in scope with no future phases confirmed.

It's a 16-km subway line - at least for now. If much of the more suburban 120-km of extension get's built, then maybe it would compare to the REM. But only one (well three) of the 50+ proposed projects in the 25-year plan.

If you count Line 3 as REM-like, then we are looking at 225 km of frequent service that's under construction. With at least another 170 km to come in the 2040s or 2050s (hopefully).

 

[dowlingm]

How is the wear and tear on those cars that have been operating at 70 km/hr for a few years now?

Can you be specific? I assume you don’t mean Ottawa given how poorly they have performed in service to date.

 

[drum118]

The REM is not an LRT though it is call one, but a light metro. OL is a full metro and the same system that is in Copenhagen that we rode in 2022. The stations are far apart and provide the speed that some want for an RT line.

This is the real speed of Copenhagen line outside to give s sense to the speed after leaving the airport. If the seating is the same for OL as this line, great rail fan seats.

 

[nfitz]

Can you be specific? I assume you don’t mean Ottawa given how poorly they have performed in service to date.

Ottawa uses a different type of car as this line.

As we've discussed frequently, Waterloo uses the same cars, and they've been in service there for years.

 

[just east of the creek]

Drum is spot on. Transit Priority in Toronto is the single largest issue, and if implemented, would save time on all at grade lines, regardless of whether the top speed exceeds 60 kmh or not.

 

[allengeorge]

It’s wild to me that it’s not - and that no one at City Hall seems to care.

Incredibly disappointing from this Mayor and Council.

 

[zang]

It’s wild to me that it’s not - and that no one at City Hall seems to care.

Incredibly disappointing from this Mayor and Council.

I wouldn’t criticize Chow on this. She’s always been pro transit. It's a relatively low cost upgrade for the entire system, and I think she’ll get to it eventually. It’ll be the regular conservative suburban councillors who’ll find a way to put the kibosh on it.

 

[cplchanb]

I wouldn’t criticize Chow on this. She’s always been pro transit. It's a relatively low cost upgrade for the entire system, and I think she’ll get to it eventually. It’ll be the regular conservative suburban councillors who’ll find a way to put the kibosh on it.

yea i dont think she even knows about this issue. she only came in last year and all these operation speeds were determined long before tory stepped down.
what we need to do is raise awareness to her office so that her staff can bring it up to her.

 

[zang]

yea i dont think she even knows about this issue. she only came in last year and all these operation speeds were determined long before tory stepped down.
what we need to do is raise awareness to her office so that her staff can bring it up to her.

I do think she’s probably very hands-on with transit, cycling and pedestrian needs. If anything, I think she’s just being incrementalist and diplomatic about her goals and not pushing everything at once.

Under her watch, we have seen (minor) priority improvements to the 504. I think full system priority is a much bigger and harder ask, and certainly a stark wake-up for drivers.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Yes, she is hands on. I lived in the Annex in the 90s and recall that she was personally responsible for adding back in some of the stops on the Spadina car the TTC wanted to eliminate.