[NoahB]

I wish it was gade separated. I liked the elevated designs proposed for the west extension and thought it could have worked on this section too.

If some of the underground trains get short turned at Laird then there could be capacity that can be filled by the tram-train idea.

Melbourne, Australia is currently undergoing a $6B( about $5.5B CAD) project to grade separate 75 of its tram street crossings. I have a feeling that one day the Crosstown will get a similar upgrade in the distant future.

 

[Allandale25]

The Kennedy to Bermondsey portion of the Eglinton LRT is already handicapped because it is on-street. It will already have reduced service compared to the underground portion, and now you want to take 1/3 of the service away.
Not that it's a bad idea, but the decision to build this on-street really makes it hard to make this a useful, rapid transit route. To some degree, it is similar to what I have proposed, but I suggest a separate line going from STC to the Don Valley, and then heading for downtown.

How do we know it will have reduced service? Is that published somewhere? Where will the eastbound LRVs turn back? Laird?

 

[Tuscani01]

I wish it was gade separated. I liked the elevated designs proposed for the west extension and thought it could have worked on this section too.

If some of the underground trains get short turned at Laird then there could be capacity that can be filled by the tram-train idea.

Melbourne, Australia is currently undergoing a $6B( about $5.5B CAD) project to grade separate 75 of its rail street crossings. I have a feeling that one day the Crosstown will get a similar upgrade in the distant future.

Melbourne is grade separating 75 of it's heavy rail* street crossings. That's no different than what we are doing here in the GTA with Metrolinx's grade separation initiative in preparation for GO RER. None of their tram routes are getting this treatment, so its not comparable to the Eglinton Crosstown.

The closest thing to Eglinton in Melbourne would be route 96, and while that has some grade separation, much of the line still has at grade crossings with no plans to remove these. The grade separations that exist today are thanks to a previously used rail line that trams now use since it was converted to LRT.

 

[NoahB]

3.2 Operations
Plan 3.2.1
LRT Service The service objective is to provide a peak-hour maximum capacity of 8000 pphpd (person per hour per direction) with at least 40% of passengers being able to be seated at the peak-hour demand. The service is proposed to operate at least every 6 minutes at peak times regardless of demand. It is expected that these requirements will result in all facilities being designed to accommodate ultimate train lengths of approximately 90 metres (consisting of three 30 metres long LRT vehicles).

Initially, the LRT Is not planned to operate 24 hours a day. During LRT operations, existing bus services along Eglinton Avenue will no longer exist. Some north-south buses that have a portion of their route travelling along Eglinton Avenue will continue to operate in short sections of the LRT corridor where necessary. In general, customers travelling east-west along Eglinton Avenue will be served by the LRT during normal operation hours as opposed to buses.

LRT operating headways will likely vary throughout the corridor. The tunnel portion of the LRT corridor will have turn back capability at both ends of the tunnel section to allow the LRT to operate with short turn service and provide shorter headways than on the surface sections. Headways on the surface section of the LRT also may vary depending on ridership demand.

Fare collection will be operated as proof of payment. This system will be implemented to avoid delays associated with traditional fare collection. Station and stop platforms will include ticket vending machines, which will also be used to facilitate transit transfers to subways and buses.

From the Environmental Project Report.

It is not set in stone, but it seems the city is planning to run the trains inside the tunnelled/grade-separated sections at a higher frequency than the street running sections.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Interesting, thanks.

 

[NoahB]

I just noticed it's from the Transit City documents even though I found it in the crosstown website. Very interesting to see what could have been.

 

[NoahB]

Melbourne is grade separating 75 of it's heavy rail* street crossings. That's no different than what we are doing here in the GTA with Metrolinx's grade separation initiative in preparation for GO RER. None of their tram routes are getting this treatment, so its not comparable to the Eglinton Crosstown.

The closest thing to Eglinton in Melbourne would be route 96, and while that has some grade separation, much of the line still has at grade crossings with no plans to remove these. The grade separations that exist today are thanks to a previously used rail line that trams now use since it was converted to LRT.

You're right. My bad. They are commuter lines with much longer statin distances.

Does anyone know of instances of street trams being converted to grade separate lines?

 

[Streety McCarface]

You're right. My bad. They are commuter lines with much longer statin distances.

Does anyone know of instances of street trams being converted to grade separate lines?

The Yonge and bloor streetcars being converted to the Yonge and Bloor subways.

 

[MetroMan]

From the Environmental Project Report.

It is not set in stone, but it seems the city is planning to run the trains inside the tunnelled/grade-separated sections at a higher frequency than the street running sections.

Oh no. So we're going to be getting a lot of "THIS CAR IS SHORTTURNING. THIS IS THE LAST STOP. PLEASE EXIT THE TRAIN HERE" ??‍

 

[Coolstar]

I just noticed it's from the Transit City documents even though I found it in the crosstown website. Very interesting to see what could have been. View attachment 223122

It still will albeit western portion is now underground.

 

[Hopkins123]

I just noticed it's from the Transit City documents even though I found it in the crosstown website. Very interesting to see what could have been. View attachment 223122

Ah yes, that litany of minor stops west of Jane only a handful of riders would have used daily. No thanks. The planned fully grade separated Eglinton West LRT is better bang for our taxpayers bucks and should be prioritized soon enough to go with the two-thirds of this line already under construction and only a few years from opening.

 

[Tuscani01]

Oh no. So we're going to be getting a lot of "THIS CAR IS SHORTTURNING. THIS IS THE LAST STOP. PLEASE EXIT THE TRAIN HERE" ??‍

I assume the destination signs would reflect where the vehicles are heading, which would limit the surprises.

 

[NoahB]

Oh no. So we're going to be getting a lot of "THIS CAR IS SHORTTURNING. THIS IS THE LAST STOP. PLEASE EXIT THE TRAIN HERE" ??‍

[I hope] It will be more like trains will visibly display their terminal on the train and the 'next train' display on the platform before you ride. A lot of express style/branching train lines do this around the world.
For example, the Vancouver Expo line terminates at a random station (Production Way-University Station) in a loop. Not the best example, but it's the first that comes to mind.

 

[NoahB]

The Yonge and bloor streetcars being converted to the Yonge and Bloor subways.

Haha, that's the most famous example.

What about lines the remained active during construction? for example, if Toronto one day to convert the crosstown to a high capacity LRT similar to Ottawa's grade separate system. In Toronto's case they would either elevate or bury the line east of Laird.

 

[NoahB]

It still will albeit western portion is now underground.

Metrolinx hasn't really shown the new plan. They are calling the extension a subway, but they are also calling the Ontario line a subway even though half the route is above ground.

I'm still crossing my fingers that they are creating a hybrid elevated and underground alignment. Something like Option 4 from Attachment 5 - Eglinton West LRT [PDF].