narduch
Senior Member
Part of the reason why the stadium can't be great is to accommodate the Argos.
That's why there is no permanent north stand
That's why there is no permanent north stand
- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
AnnetteMeetsJane
Active Member
Other than a couple of National Soccer games a year, what team is filling that stadium?
narduch
Senior Member
TFC if MLSE knew how to properly run a sports organization.
The Argos surely aren't filling it.
GenerationW
Senior Member
And rugby and other sports since the original mandate was for it to be all-purpose until David Miller pulled a fast one and made it soccer-specific, then laughably denied knowing how that happened. Thankfully sanity was restored and that was reversed.
narduch
Senior Member
On the one hand we have people in this thread complaining that the stadium isn't great.
Than we have other posters like you advocating for the Argos at BMO Field which is one of the main reasons why they can't permanently make the stadium better.
Besides the way the Argo owners almost killed the original stadium deal I don't really fault Miller for not accommodating them
The Argos should play at a purpose built 10,000 stadium somewhere else.
As for rugby, it's been nearly 10 years since a rugby game was even played at BMO Field.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Stadium is fine.
Miller is a snake.
10K is too small for the Argos. They just sold 20K tickets for a team with a 2-8 record, and playoff games do well. Argos also stopped giving away thousands of freebees like they did in the early 2000s, which I've been told TFC is now doing. Welcome to being a niche Toronto sport.
Maybe if Soccer Canada execs didn't steal money for the last 50 years, they could build their own stadium. Though I have no idea why we still need Canadian MLS teams when we now have our own pro league. Why are we contributing to the growth of soccer in another country? It's so stupid.
narduch
Senior Member
Miller was the last good mayor the city had.
You can basically pin point the beginning of the demise of the city with Rob Ford being elected.
Mihairokov
Active Member
They sold an additional 5-7K tickets this weekend because the Argos ticket granted all-day access to CNE and to the Blue Rodeo concert at Budweiser Stage. Let's not pretend like the Argos are drawing 20K out to BMO on their own. And, that makes two CFL teams who have used concerts to sell tickets for their games this season.
TFC and Argos aren't really in the same conversation when a single player at TFC makes more than the entire valuation of the Argos franchise.
Because there's money to be made and that's how sport in this country works. Without MLS we probably don't have CPL.
Again, i'll be interested to see what 2026 holds for the Argos and for the CFL in general, as Bell has removed themselves from MLSE and their contract with CFL ends after 2026. I doubt Rogers steps up and gives the CFL $50M/year when Ed wants an NFL team to add to his infinity gauntlet and when that CFL team prohibits further expansion of other MLSE properties at BMO.
ImmenselyMental
Active Member
Although this discussion about whether the Argos belong at BMO Field is getting somewhat off-topic now, I am going to join the conversation as I attended their Week 12 game against the BC Lions on Saturday afternoon.
Since tickets to the game also provided admission to the CNE, demand for game tickets was naturally higher than for other Argos games, resulting in the upper east stands being opened, and allowing for a season-high attendance of 18,354. While the Argos draw fewer fans per game than other CFL teams, the fans who do show up to games tend to be quite active in supporting the team.
@Mihairokov Although tickets to the Argos game also provided CNE admission, separate tickets were required for the Blue Rodeo concert, but nonetheless they were promoting it on the stadium's PA system.
Here is a photo I took of BMO Field during pre-game ceremonies, with preparatory work for the temporary north stands for the World Cup visible on the right:
I then took the following photo during the second quarter; notice how the seats in front of the camera were mostly filled with fans:
Since tickets to the game also provided admission to the CNE, demand for game tickets was naturally higher than for other Argos games, resulting in the upper east stands being opened, and allowing for a season-high attendance of 18,354. While the Argos draw fewer fans per game than other CFL teams, the fans who do show up to games tend to be quite active in supporting the team.
@Mihairokov Although tickets to the Argos game also provided CNE admission, separate tickets were required for the Blue Rodeo concert, but nonetheless they were promoting it on the stadium's PA system.
Here is a photo I took of BMO Field during pre-game ceremonies, with preparatory work for the temporary north stands for the World Cup visible on the right:
I then took the following photo during the second quarter; notice how the seats in front of the camera were mostly filled with fans:
6ixGod
Active Member
Exactly this. If they want to host the Argos at BMO then build it properly….Tottenham Stadium is a perfect example. But we all know Toronto won’t ever do that, so I’ve always advocated that Lamport Stadium be given to the Argos to play in….if the Toronto Wolfpack could fill it up, I don’t see how the Argos couldn’t.
Everybody wins….BMO finally can build a proper North stand and the Argos can finally sell out a 8000 seat stadium.
ImmenselyMental
Active Member
Maybe, but if the Argos were to play at Lamport Stadium, it would have to be rebuilt to accommodate them as well. A Canadian football field is 150 yards (including 20-yard end zones), or roughly 137.2 metres, from one end of the playable field to the other. As it currently is, the playing field at Lamport is 110 metres long, so it is more suitable for soccer than football.
However, Lamport Stadium can technically be rebuilt to accommodate the Argos, by extending the field and seating areas south towards Liberty Street. The site is large enough to accommodate a CFL field and stands, up to roughly the current size of BMO Field.
Obsidian
Active Member
As others have mentioned, the inclusion of the Argos pretty much ruined the chance of BMO field ever being a great venue. The Argos organization almost got the project cancelled in the first place by bailing in the last minute to re-sign a contract to play at Skydome, it was soccer Canada and MLSE who saved it after the Argos left the project hanging. 10 years later that same organization was kicked out of skydome because the Blue Jays didn't want them there and MLSE decided to accommodate them at BMO while the stadium was undergoing renovation. These last stage of renovation would have an expanded North end but the plans were changed to include the Argos.
The Argos should play in a 10 to 15K stadium somewhere in suburbia where their fans are and let BMO field finally turn into a proper soccer stadium it was always intended to be.
The Argos should play in a 10 to 15K stadium somewhere in suburbia where their fans are and let BMO field finally turn into a proper soccer stadium it was always intended to be.
T-Bor
Active Member
As per google, TFC hasn't sold out BMO field since 2017. They're currently averaging 20k fans. The Argos are averaging 15k fans, trending up. As has been noted, playoff games regularly get 23k - 25k people. Even the Canadian national soccer team only averaged 15k - 20k people at the tournament this past summer. There is simply no need for a stadium larger than 30k people outside a half-dozen World Cup games.
TFC has a respectably hardcore fan base, but next to no TV viewership, and never has. So the idea that there is an extra 10k people that would love to go to watch TFC, if only the Argos got out of there, is simply untrue.
TFC has a respectably hardcore fan base, but next to no TV viewership, and never has. So the idea that there is an extra 10k people that would love to go to watch TFC, if only the Argos got out of there, is simply untrue.
narduch
Senior Member
I think you are confusing a few different points here.
The Argos aren't the reason TFC attendance isn't better. That's on MLSE mismanagement of the team over the past 5 or so years.
And the reason the stadium can't be permanently improved on the North end is that they need to be able to accommodate the Argos.
Not sure where you are even getting TV viewership data considering it's now behind a paywall that doesn't tell us how many people are watching (Apple.TV).
T-Bor
Active Member
Agreed on the attendance issue. There have just been many comments on here and elsewhere that somehow TFC has some 'right' to have a City of Toronto designed stadium. Having the temporary North stands for TFC also makes a for a garbage Argos atmosphere in the North end, so it cuts both ways.
Also, 120,000 figure is from the MLS commissioner. Down from 343,000 under ESPN back in 2022. Even if, optimistically two-thirds of those are TFC fans, that's only 80,000 people watching TFC games. Way lower than any other pro sports league.
https://www.sportspro.com/news/mls-apple-streaming-broadcast-deal-viewership-audience-don-garber-august-2025/#:~:text=According%20to%20Garber%2C%20Apple%20TV's,cent%20on%20the%202024%20season.
My overall point is that both TFC and the Argos hurt the other teams in-game experience, but both play in a city-owned stadium, and I'd suspect neither can make the business case to build their own stadium without public money.