[isaidso]

Exactly this. If they want to host the Argos at BMO then build it properly….Tottenham Stadium is a perfect example. But we all know Toronto won’t ever do that, so I’ve always advocated that Lamport Stadium be given to the Argos to play in….if the Toronto Wolfpack could fill it up, I don’t see how the Argos couldn’t.

Everybody wins….BMO finally can build a proper North stand and the Argos can finally sell out a 8000 seat stadium.

Everybody wins? Toronto may be the worst football market on the continent but Lamport Stadium is woefully inadequate even for the Argonauts. It would be a disaster for football, football fans, our national football league, not to mention this storied franchise. They're the 2nd oldest pro football team (founded in 1873) in North America in the city that invented the sport. The Hamilton Tiger-Cats are the oldest (1869). I doubt most Torontonians are even aware of this.

Torontonians .may not have any respect for their own culture but Toronto's pro football team deserves better. Not that you did this but the utter disregard, and sometimes outright disdain, for Canada's domestic football league never ceases to amaze me. Whether one likes football or not, the Toronto Argonauts and our pro football league deserve better.

 

[Mihairokov]

Toronto isn't a bad football market it's just not an Argos market.

I don't think any of us have any obligation to support the CFL to the degree that CFL fans seemingly want to point fingers outside of their homes. I can't think of any other fanbase that perpetually acts like this.

 

[T-Bor]

Toronto isn't a bad football market it's just not an Argos market.

I don't think any of us have any obligation to support the CFL to the degree that CFL fans seemingly want to point fingers outside of their homes. I can't think of any other fanbase that perpetually acts like this.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. Both the Argos and TFC play in a city-owned stadium. And I'm sure TFC will benefit from the World Cup enhancements being done.

And I think there's a good argument this isn't a good football market. Bills had to give away free tickets by the end, and nobody supports the football that actually is around here. It's a great TV market, but I don't see any evidence that people are willing to actually get off the couch and pay to see football of any kind

 

[Mihairokov]

I'm not sure what point you're making here.

Lots of football fans: most of them NFL and not CFL.

And I think there's a good argument this isn't a good football market. Bills had to give away free tickets by the end, and nobody supports the football that actually is around here. It's a great TV market, but I don't see any evidence that people are willing to actually get off the couch and pay to see football of any kind

Maybe you're right, but CFL fans love to point fingers and expect people to go out to games because it's Canadian and not because it's good football. Wolfpack had no issue attracting near-Argos crowds for their short run at Lamport, i'm sure the Argos could take a swing at the venue when they're eventually let go from BMO, but they'd be better off escaping to the hinterlands instead, depending on who wants to pay for a stadium for them to play in.

 

[T-Bor]

Maybe you're right, but CFL fans love to point fingers and expect people to go out to games because it's Canadian and not because it's good football. Wolfpack had no issue attracting near-Argos crowds for their short run at Lamport, i'm sure the Argos could take a swing at the venue when they're eventually let go from BMO, but they'd be better off escaping to the hinterlands instead, depending on who wants to pay for a stadium for them to play in.

Yeah, you're not wrong, some CFL fans are like that, and the league has dropped the ball, hard, on doing basically zero marketing in the Toronto area for like 20 years. Though it's bizarre how somehow it's looked at as bad to support something homegrown. There's also frustration when the Toronto inferiority complex comes up, i.e. the CFL is garbage, I won't watch it, but then those same people often conveniently overlook the fact that, internationally-speaking, MLS is garbage soccer. Though I concede that the in-stadium atmosphere is, by far, the best of any Toronto sports team.

Lamport holds under 10k, and the Wolfpack averaged about 7k over 3 years. The Argos draw 15k - 20k for the regular season, with playoffs around 25k. TFC averages around 20 - 25k. I fail to see how or why either team would get 'kicked out', unless there's an ownership angle I'm missing.

 

[narduch]

Lamport is a dump and it appears is too cost prohibitive to improve.

It sounds like both York United and AFC Toronto kicked the tires on Lamport and they both have moved on to other avenues.

 

[T-Bor]

That's too bad, but it makes sense. I had wondered why AFC Toronto specifically didn't try it. York is just so far, but Lamport looks like it would almost need to be torn down to make it even semi-professional grade

 

[Mihairokov]

Yeah, you're not wrong, some CFL fans are like that, and the league has dropped the ball, hard, on doing basically zero marketing in the Toronto area for like 20 years.

I always see people say this: what sort of marketing do you think the league should be doing? It's possible to see ads for the Argos/CFL on TSN throughout the city.

Though it's bizarre how somehow it's looked at as bad to support something homegrown.

I'd say it's more indifference than anything else. It's a crowded market and it's overshadowed by the largest sports league in this hemisphere.

I won't watch it, but then those same people often conveniently overlook the fact that, internationally-speaking, MLS is garbage soccer.

MLS is basically a top 10 league in the world at this point. Things change quick!

That's too bad, but it makes sense. I had wondered why AFC Toronto specifically didn't try it. York is just so far, but Lamport looks like it would almost need to be torn down to make it even semi-professional grade

You answered your own question. Neither AFC, or York United, or the Argos, have the funding necessary to redevelop Lamport on their own.

 

[SubHuman]

... unless there's an ownership angle I'm missing.

Through their acquisition of Bell's part of MLSE, Rogers becomes the owners of the Argos, despite having never shown any interest in having any involvement with the CFL. The thinking seems to be that they would be eager to unload them to anyone interested in taking over.
And the TSN TV deal, that has kept the CFL in existence through recent years, expires after 2026, so their future doesn't look promising.

 

[T-Bor]

Through their acquisition of Bell's part of MLSE, Rogers becomes the owners of the Argos, despite having never shown any interest in having any involvement with the CFL. The thinking seems to be that they would be eager to unload them to anyone interested in taking over.
And the TSN TV deal, that has kept the CFL in existence through recent years, expires after 2026, so their future doesn't look promising.

I meant ownership in regards to the stadium that would lead to them getting kicked out. Many teams have had questions around ownership of the team itself. And TV deals keep most leagues in existence. The CFL TV deal isn't a charity case, it's because there are way more people watching a CFL game than a raptors game, for example.

I'd say it's more indifference than anything else. It's a crowded market and it's overshadowed by the largest sports league in this hemisphere.

Totally agree here. Some people have a 'I'm too good for the CFL' mentality, but I think the vast majority of it just don't even know it's a thing.

I always see people say this: what sort of marketing do you think the league should be doing? It's possible to see ads for the Argos/CFL on TSN throughout the city.

In Calgary, Vancouver, and Ottawa, you can see billboards around town advertising upcoming games. While TSN will put ads on bus stops for Argos games, MLSE has done basically nothing. No cross promotion at other MLSE games, etc. Pay for a damn subway ad that says '$100 for a family of 4' is all I'm saying.

MLS is basically a top 10 league in the world at this point. Things change quick!

But that's my point. Top 10 soccer league? Amazing! Top 2 football league? Garbage!

 

[picard102]

I meant ownership in regards to the stadium that would lead to them getting kicked out. Many teams have had questions around ownership of the team itself. And TV deals keep most leagues in existence. The CFL TV deal isn't a charity case, it's because there are way more people watching a CFL game than a raptors game, for example.

Gonna need to see your sources on this one. CFL viewership has been declining for years.
Grey Cup viewership peak was in 2012 with 5.8m.
NBA in 2019 hit 7.9m.

 

[Mihairokov]

Through their acquisition of Bell's part of MLSE, Rogers becomes the owners of the Argos, despite having never shown any interest in having any involvement with the CFL. The thinking seems to be that they would be eager to unload them to anyone interested in taking over.
And the TSN TV deal, that has kept the CFL in existence through recent years, expires after 2026, so their future doesn't look promising.

To add to this, the new CFL commissioner is a former TSN president.

I meant ownership in regards to the stadium that would lead to them getting kicked out. Many teams have had questions around ownership of the team itself. And TV deals keep most leagues in existence. The CFL TV deal isn't a charity case, it's because there are way more people watching a CFL game than a raptors game, for example.

BMO Field is operated by MLSE who are now owned by Rogers, so there is incentive to remove the Argos from BMO if they're looking to focus on properties they care more about. TV deals do keep most leagues afloat but not often are TV carriers sold mid-deal. Given that most other economic indicators for the CFL are in decline, including in-person attendance and TV ratings, it bears to question why Rogers would want to contribute the $50M/year that Bell was willing to part with for a product that conflicts directly with another of theirs (the Jays) and prevents expansion of a facility that another of their properties uses (TFC), along with hindering events they would like to host more of (CMNT/CWNT).

Based on how the Argos have been handled for the upcoming World Cup tenancy I get the feeling they were told to get lost. Maybe that's a sign of things to come for 2027. They could have used the WC break to play games in Atlantic Canada, or Guelph, or London, but instead are wandering the wilderness out West. I'm sure the CFL is eager to get tickets sold for those games in venues they don't need to build from scratch in markets they don't need to fight in.

In Calgary, Vancouver, and Ottawa, you can see billboards around town advertising upcoming games. While TSN will put ads on bus stops for Argos games, MLSE has done basically nothing. No cross promotion at other MLSE games, etc. Pay for a damn subway ad that says '$100 for a family of 4' is all I'm saying.

They advertise like this in Toronto.

But that's my point. Top 10 soccer league? Amazing! Top 2 football league? Garbage!

I shouldn't have to explain the difference in being the tenth best league in the world's most popular sport, and being the 2nd best league of a specific sport only played in the US.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

The Apple TV deal has seemingly killed TFC's image in Toronto. Sure the team hasn't done anything to help their image but... At least in the darkest of the dark periods you could still find a TFC game on TV and that drove the local news reports to report their scores. Now I barely ever hear mention of TFC and their games are locked behind a paywall.

For a while there it looked like TFC would surpass the Blue Jays as Toronto's summer sporting destination. Now they're barely mentioned anywhere.

As for Lamport. You'd have to remove the parking lot to the south of the stadium, and the green space on the E and W sides in order to rebuild it to CFL standards. Then the question becomes would there be enough space left over to handle the crowds heading into or leaving the stadium without overwhelming the surrounding neighborhood.

 

[AnnetteMeetsJane]

As for Lamport. You'd have to remove the parking lot to the south of the stadium, and the green space on the E and W sides in order to rebuild it to CFL standards. Then the question becomes would there be enough space left over to handle the crowds heading into or leaving the stadium without overwhelming the surrounding neighborhood.

Lamport is a City of Toronto facility used by a lot of community organisations, no? Where do those users go if MLSE swoop in?

 

[narduch]

Lamport is a City of Toronto facility used by a lot of community organisations, no? Where do those users go if MLSE swoop in?

Pretty sure MLSE already manages Lamport for the city