[81-717]

or their city planners are members of a death cult.

You mean the same ones who wanna screw over cyclists by removing bike lanes while also trying (unsuccessfully ofc) to blanket-ban them taking the sidewalk when taking the road is too dangerous? Yeah, no argument there.

You know as well as I do that people are generally stupid and ignorant and collectively take thousands of actions daily that put themselves, or others, in danger. Let's not make it easier for them.

I mean, how much easier could it get? There's nothing stopping anyone from jumping onto track level from the platform, or jumping from the sidewalk into oncoming traffic, 3rd rail or not.

 

[T3G]

I mean, how much easier could it get? There's nothing stopping anyone from jumping onto track level from the platform, or jumping from the sidewalk into oncoming traffic, 3rd rail or not.

That doesn't mean we need to introduce more points of danger.

 

[81-717]

That doesn't mean we need to introduce more points of danger.

Then we should also build ALL rail lines (LRTs, commuter and freight) fully grade-separated going forward because they too introduce another point of danger. Yet while the mainline railroads may be grade-separating some of their busiest crossings, any LRTs being built now have no plans to be fully grade-separated as far as I know (otherwise the 5/6 would've been), in fact some people basically believe that an LRT requires having grade crossings in order to be an LRT (Ottawa has a fully grade-separated LRT and some think it should be converted into a rapid transit line just because of that, no other reason).

 

[micheal_can]

You greatly misunderstood the plan, it seems.

Yes, there was to be one in Etobicoke. And yes, some versions of the Downtown Relief Line called for ICTS equipment to be used.

But the lines were all discrete, and did not connect to each other.

Dan

Yeah. It seems that I did completely misunderstand it.

 

[TOtramz]

Any updates on if they repaired the TBM?

Based on the previous comments, it would seem like using a single large bore TBM was a huge mistake compared to the traditional 2 TBM single bore.
Wonder if we will ever see a single bore tunnel again in this city after this debacle.

 

[generalcanada]

Any updates on if they repaired the TBM?

Based on the previous comments, it would seem like using a single large bore TBM was a huge mistake compared to the traditional 2 TBM single bore.
Wonder if we will ever see a single bore tunnel again in this city after this debacle.

Metrolinx tight-lipped as usual.
Technically we dont know for a fact the tbm choice itself caused this, but soil conditions definitely did.

 

[nfitz]

If you'd seen the map showing all the boreholes along the route, you'd know that it wasn't unknown soil conditions that were the issue - unless they hit a massive erratic that the boreholes all missed.

It could have been a poor TBM choice if it wasn't suitable for the conditions. Someone should FOIA all the soil logs and cross-sections (and offhand, I don't know what show in that location).

Metrolinx is still pretending that it's not soil conditions, and a planned stop.

 

[TOtramz]

If you'd seen the map showing all the boreholes along the route, you'd know that it wasn't unknown soil conditions that were the issue - unless they hit a massive erratic that the boreholes all missed.

It could have been a poor TBM choice if it wasn't suitable for the conditions. Someone should FOIA all the soil logs and cross-sections (and offhand, I don't know what show in that location).

Metrolinx is still pretending that it's not soil conditions, and a planned stop.

Too late to order a new TBM and spend an extra 500 mil?

 

[urbancog]

Single bore tunnel diameters seem to be getting bigger as time goes by. For example, 3.8m - Victoria Line (1960s, 4-rail electrification), 4.9m - Tyne-Wear Metro (1970s, overhead-catenary electrification), 6.0m - TYSSE (2000s, 3-rail), 6.2m - Crossrail (2000s, overhead), 7.0m - Ontario Line (2020s, overhead). Inclusion of a sidewalk for emergency evacuation is one reason but TYSSE has that, so not sure why the Ontario Line needs 7m.

By digging a single tunnel for both tracks, it's possible to reduce the overall volume excavated: 52.8 m3/m for the 10.7m diameter single bore SSE tunnel versus 69.1 m3/m (2 * 34.6) for the two bores of the Ontario Line, saving 24% of the cost of handling the excavated material.

Whether a 10.7m diameter TBM is pushing the limits of effective operation is a question to be answered.

 

[NIV]

Frustrating that metrolinx isn’t more forthcoming with information. Definitely not planned. Metrolinx did send out a letter in Oct 2023 to the Brimorton/Bendale community informing them of a “temporary intervention structure to allow for maintenance of the TBM”. Working 24 hours a day just south of Brimorton dr. to be completed by July 2024. Wonder who’s responsible for the bad soil information and TBM design. Who’s paying for this? Why isn’t media asking questions?

 

[nfitz]

Single bore tunnel diameters seem to be getting bigger as time goes by. For example, 3.8m - Victoria Line (1960s, 4-rail electrification), 4.9m - Tyne-Wear Metro (1970s, overhead-catenary electrification), 6.0m - TYSSE (2000s, 3-rail), 6.2m - Crossrail (2000s, overhead), 7.0m - Ontario Line (2020s, overhead). Inclusion of a sidewalk for emergency evacuation is one reason but TYSSE has that, so not sure why the Ontario Line needs 7m.

By digging a single tunnel for both tracks, it's possible to reduce the overall volume excavated: 52.8 m3/m for the 10.7m diameter single bore SSE tunnel versus 69.1 m3/m (2 * 34.6) for the two bores of the Ontario Line, saving 24% of the cost of handling the excavated material.

Whether a 10.7m diameter TBM is pushing the limits of effective operation is a question to be answered.

I'd think you'd compare the Ontario Line to the 6-metre diameter TYSSE (Line 2) tunnels which are only 56.6 m³/m (2 × 28.3). Assuming your diameters are correct (I haven't checked).

In theory it should still be fine - they've gone far higher for highway tunnels. Over 17-metres for that new highway tunnel in downtown Seattle (though perhaps not the best example of success - but the only problem they had was when it tried to cut through pilings (or some kind of structure) that was unmapped. And even that one was only stuck 2 years, while they dug down the rescue hole.

I don't think the systems with very narrow trains, like the deep level underground lines in London, are comparable. Or the ones with catenary.

 

[smallspy]

Single bore tunnel diameters seem to be getting bigger as time goes by. For example, 3.8m - Victoria Line (1960s, 4-rail electrification), 4.9m - Tyne-Wear Metro (1970s, overhead-catenary electrification), 6.0m - TYSSE (2000s, 3-rail), 6.2m - Crossrail (2000s, overhead), 7.0m - Ontario Line (2020s, overhead). Inclusion of a sidewalk for emergency evacuation is one reason but TYSSE has that, so not sure why the Ontario Line needs 7m.

You need to also do a comparison of the area of the dynamic envelope of each of the vehicles. You'd then see that the size of the tunnel diameters really isn't growing much at all - after all, the size of the tunnel is a function of the size of the vehicle that needs to pass through it.

Dan

 

[ARG1]

You need to also do a comparison of the area of the dynamic envelope of each of the vehicles. You'd then see that the size of the tunnel diameters really isn't growing much at all - after all, the size of the tunnel is a function of the size of the vehicle that needs to pass through it.

Dan

A better comparison would be comparing the Victoria Line tunnels with the Jubilee Line and Battersea Power Station extension tunnels.

 

[TOtramz]

Assuming the stations will be built by adding platforms around the tunnel, I'm guessing station construction will be delayed. If the stations are mined/cut independent of the tunnel, perhaps they can still do station work while the TBM is hibernating?

what a mess

 

[stevedean]

Which transit project in the GTA isn't a mess right now? Maybe Ontario Line... but The Crosstown, Finch LRT, Hurontario LRT, Scarborough subway are all various levels of mess. Not to mention the non existent Waterfront LRT.