I’m holding out for the Marine Strategy as I think that is going to be the indication of the way forward for the Island Transportation Lands and the waterfront as a whole.
 
picard102 said:
Wait till you hear about the Gardiner, the Police Budget, and Ontario Place.
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The Gardiner (along with the DVP) is at some unknown stage of being uploaded to the province. Unless it is pat of some negotiation, I'm not sure why the city would put a lot of money into it. Similarly, Ontario Place itself is a provincial plaything. Yes, the police budget is a wholly city matter.
 
lenaitch said:
The Gardiner (along with the DVP) is at some unknown stage of being uploaded to the province. Unless it is pat of some negotiation, I'm not sure why the city would put a lot of money into it. Similarly, Ontario Place itself is a provincial plaything. Yes, the police budget is a wholly city matter.
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Both were things that she campaigned on to her left leaning base.
 
picard102 said:
Both were things that she campaigned on to her left leaning base.
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Ok, since her last campaign, the province agreed to upload the Gardiner - what's left to say?
I supposed she could keep tilting at the Ontario Place windmill, but it's not her land and not her expense. Why shout if no one is listening except maybe to get some money tossed your way.

As for the police budget, she can try to cut it or hold it, but when it is probably 85% salaries and benefits, is she going to propose layoffs? I suppose those on the hard left would be ok with that; in a purely socialist state, the proletariat have no need of laws or their enforcement.
 
lenaitch said:
Ok, since her last campaign, the province agreed to upload the Gardiner - what's left to say?
I supposed she could keep tilting at the Ontario Place windmill, but it's not her land and not her expense. Why shout if no one is listening except maybe to get some money tossed your way.

As for the police budget, she can try to cut it or hold it, but when it is probably 85% salaries and benefits, is she going to propose layoffs? I suppose those on the hard left would be ok with that; in a purely socialist state, the proletariat have no need of laws or their enforcement.
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Not sure what your point is here.
Someone wrote "What's the point of having a left wing mayor?" about this news, and I pointed out three other areas this "left wing mayor" would disappoint them.
Are you debating that she didn't disappoint her left wing base by capitulating on these three areas? Maybe take this to the Mayor's thread.
 
chrisw said:
Would they need a further extension to allow jets?
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Yes, as has been mentioned multiple times previously in this thread.
evandyk said:
Never say never, but it really doesn't look like jets are coming to this airport, and you'd have plenty of warning before that ever happened, because the debate/conflict/electioneering would be intense.
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It seems no airline has recently expressed interest in the idea of using jets there, or even in taking up the presently available slots.
In the Hamilton Airport thread, it sounds like Porter is set to start using YHM. It would seem unlikely that they would indefinitely want to continue to use all three of YYZ, YTZ, and YHM. As Porter had threatened to leave and complained "it cannot operate profitably at the island airport", you would have to think that would be the one they would be most likely to leave. I would like to find out how long they agreed to continue using YTZ in the 2023 settlement.

If Porter leaves, and it's just a few Air Canada Express/Jazz flights left each day to Ottawa and Montreal, it makes the airport's continued future existence more questionable.
 
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SubHuman said:
Yes, as has been mentioned multiple times previously in this thread.

It seems no airline has recently expressed interest in the idea of using jets there, or even in taking up the presently available slots.
In the Hamilton Airport thread, it sounds like Porter is set to start using YHM. It would seem unlikely that they would indefinitely want to continue to use all three of YYZ, YTZ, and YHM. As Porter had threatened to leave and complained "it cannot operate profitably at the island airport", you would have to think that would be the one they would be most likely to leave. I would like to find out how long they agreed to continue using YTZ in the 2023 settlement.

If Porter leaves, and it's just a few Air Canada Express/Jazz flights left each day to Ottawa and Montreal, it makes the airport's continued future existence more questionable.
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To be fair, the settlement was with the terminal operator. I think the airline is considering bringing jets because there was so much political meddling last time! Even the official report that said a wider exclusion zone won’t be required was just ignored
 
rdaner said:
Interesting as I see Billy Bishop as a natural for this! Posting it because it has moved from fantasy to orders and routes in Florida/Caribbean so I’m sure that it is on Ports Toronto’s radar.

electrek.co

UrbanLink nearly doubles order of REGENT electric seagliders to transport over 4M passengers a year

Less than a year after announcing an order for 27 electric seaglider planes from REGENT Craft, advanced air mobility (AAM) specialist...
electrek.co electrek.co
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This has nothing to do with Billy Bishop and it will not.

For one thing, the planes can only do 180 miles on a charge. That's inconsistent with most Billy Bishop destinations.

Even Toronto-Detroit is out of range.

These would be limited to Toronto-Buffalo, Toronto-Rochester, Toronto-Niagara.

I'm highly suspicious of a commercial market for those destinations, at prices for a 12-seat aircraft no less.

This belongs in fantasy for the foreseeable future.
 
Usually you are right but on this I think ‘it may be later than you think!’ lol. It is the possibility of shorter routes connecting to downtown that is peaking interest as there is immense demand and no other option at present. As well this would be of interest to a small portion of commuter traffic and those Ontario residents who come in once a month.

But enough for now. And I get the scepticism but this option is a the very beginning of a rapid upscaling to bigger planes and more seats not to mention being much quieter than fuel craft. And Porter will be first in line as will Provincial/Federal concerns. And let’s not forget the airport is now officially designated ‘Transport.’ If a hovercraft can be taken seriously by a few then this will have a much better chance. Btw I would gladly pay a premium to fly to Downtown Kingston for the day.
 
rdaner said:
Usually you are right
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Stop there, while you're ahead, LOL

rdaner said:
but on this I think ‘it may be later than you think!’ lol. It is the possibility of shorter routes connecting to downtown that is peaking interest as there is immense demand and no other option at present. As well this would be of interest to a small portion of commuter traffic and those Ontario residents who come in once a month.
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I think you're overestimating demand. They types of trips you suggest, if so desired, by affluent people could be made today in small aircraft, or in helicopters etc. But they aren't. I don't see this as a game-changer.

PS, you would need facilities for these aircraft to land, and to charge, at every terminal point.

rdaner said:
And Porter will be first in line as will Provincial/Federal concerns.
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No they won't. Its not cost-efficient to their evolving business model. They're moving to jets (larger aircraft) that seat more people than their traditional aircraft. They are not downscaling to 12-seaters.

Sure, planes will be electric one day...........no doubt.............though still many years away for most commercial aviation. Yes, these will increase in capacity, but neither of those things really has anything to do with Billy Bishop.

If/when aircraft the size of the current turbo props are electric, serving Billy Bishop type destinations, then sure the aircraft may well transition but that's not a huge material change.

Aircraft coming in either for a water landing or attempting vertical take-off and landing are inconsistent with current aviation set up for Billy Bishop and not practical without a host of changes.

rdaner said:
If a hovercraft can be taken seriously by a few then this will have a much better chance. Btw I would gladly pay a premium to fly to Downtown Kingston for the day.
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Putting aside that any hovercraft concept has some serious issues to overcome; and that this is not the first time we've heard of such a proposal.............

The proposed hovercraft seat 180 people each or 15x the capacity of these planes, that creates a completely different economy of scale.

****

I get that you read a lot of things online you find exciting......... I'm not suggesting you stop that; but don't try to make connections to Toronto infrastructure in the real world, where none have been announced, none are being planned for, and none will be happening in the near or medium term future.

That's exactly what fantasy threads are for............to dream wildly about how things might be in 20, 30, or 50 years.
 
Northern Light said:
... Sure, planes will be electric one day...........no doubt.............though still many years away for most commercial aviation. Yes, these will increase in capacity, but neither of those things really has anything to do with Billy Bishop.
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If those 30-seat electric planes that Air Canada was hoping to buy ever become reality, I wonder if, like electric cars, they would make less noise? And if so, could the present YTZ curfew be extended for a couple of more hours just for them? It's probably still in the realm of fantasy, but seems to be slightly more of a realistic possibility than the hovercraft idea. (And apparently the St. Catharines/Niagara District Airport is only for general aviation purposes.)
 
^Just to be clear the aircraft being used in Florida are designed to land on water thus Billy Bishop would be ideal as would any destination on a body of water big enough to have a dedicated space e.g. Kingston, Hamilton, Port Colbourne, etc. The reason for bringing it up is that it would provide downtown to downtown service which I see as a great advantage.
 
rdaner said:
^Just to be clear the aircraft being used in Florida are designed to land on water thus Billy Bishop would be ideal as would any destination on a body of water big enough to have a dedicated space e.g. Kingston, Hamilton, Port Colbourne, etc. The reason for bringing it up is that it would provide downtown to downtown service which I see as a great advantage.
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These aircraft can only fly low over water, correct?
 
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