Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
The higher priority will be given to the fighter planes that would be used in military action. Lower priority for planes to be used for shows.
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- Thread starter Admiral Beez
- Start date
kEiThZ
Superstar
Not sure what the big deal is. This is news from 6 months to a year ago as part of the Army's modernization. And "leaked" is hilarious. The CA openly published placemats explaining this. F-tier Canadian journalism on defence issues as usual.
Nah. It's proper and sensible. Quite a few of us in the RCAF were appalled they weren't grounded when Jenn Casey was killed.
kEiThZ
Superstar
While the other bids are still out, rocket artillery was settled with the HIMARS order. It was the only platform that fires the munitions we want and is transportable by C-130. European and Korean MLRS are designed to be high capacity and large. Ergo not transportable without C-17 (of which we only have 5). The government wants the ability to deploy a HIMARS to any coastal region of Canada on a whim and put any hostile vessel under threat with long range naval fires. Europeans probably have a better shot at the air defence contracts. Not sure which way we go on tanks. Historically the CA has had a strong preference for European vehicles that integrate better into the European theatre. But with our budding friendship with SK, who knows....
hw621
Senior Member
I don’t disagree with grounding the aging Snowbirds fleet if safety has become a concern. Pilot safety must come first.
What’s disappointing is that Canada allowed the replacement process to drag on for so long that the country may lose its premier demonstration team for years. The Snowbirds are more than an airshow act — they are one of the most visible symbols of the Canadian Armed Forces and one of the few military institutions recognized coast to coast by the public.
A modern replacement plan should have been prepared years ago instead of waiting until the fleet became too old to sustain reliably. Grounding unsafe aircraft is sensible. Failing to modernize in time is not.
Westey
Active Member
Is this another way of saying the economy is so poor to the youth (under 25) that no other job can be found.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Weird how so many people are so passionate about the air show team and not the kit we actually send people to war with. There's Hornets in Latvia right now with pilots risking their lives everyday. To any of us in uniform that is infinitely more important than the Snowbirds.
SubHuman
Senior Member
Will the proposed turboprop replacement be perceived as "modern"?
Pilatus PC-21 - Wikipedia
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lenaitch
Senior Member
Recruitment is only the beginning. There is limited capacity in training as well.
I think this government, which seems to be capable of making decisions, had little choice. An earlier decision and acquisition would have been nice, but that pre-dates this government. There's only so much life you can wring out of a six decades old airframe that is now an orphan fleet.
I know the CT-157/Siskin II/ PC-21 is a high performance aircraft, but I am disappointed that the air demonstration future seems to lie in a propeller aircraft. I think some crowd appeal will be lost unless they get into some Red Bull-type acrobatics, which I highly doubt. There is much I don't know but was surprised when they retired the BAE Hawk/CT-155 in favour of farming out training. At least that airframe is still in production.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
We’re the 11th largest economy in the world, and we settle for a 2nd rate path. We might as well field a Tiger Moth team.Will the proposed turboprop replacement be perceived as "modern"?
Pilatus PC-21 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Tiger Nine — European Airshows
Tiger Nine are a UK vintage formation team flying the iconic de Havilland DH.82 Tiger Moth biplanes. Based at White Waltham Airfield in Berkshire, the team is known for elegant nine-ship formations, dramatic opposition passes and crowd-pleasing breaks that showcase precise handling of these classic
www.europeanairshows.co.uk
hw621
Senior Member
Thought we are the 10th?We’re the 11th largest economy in the world, and we settle for a 2nd rate path. We might as well field a Tiger Moth team.
Tiger Nine — European Airshows
Tiger Nine are a UK vintage formation team flying the iconic de Havilland DH.82 Tiger Moth biplanes. Based at White Waltham Airfield in Berkshire, the team is known for elegant nine-ship formations, dramatic opposition passes and crowd-pleasing breaks that showcase precise handling of these classic
EBT
Active Member
Very disappointing to see that the Snowbirds Tudor jets will be retired at the end of this season to be replaced by a Pilatus turbo-prop trainer that will not be available until the "early 2030s". An air demonstration team consisting of turbo props doesn't cut it. Even though the Tudor's are very old and past their lifetime and should have been retired years ago there is no denying they put on an impressive show with the roar of their jets.
Why not put CF-18 Hornets into service for the Snowbirds? Putting seven Hornets into service for an air demonstration role doesn't preclude pressing them into a combat role if required. The BAE Hawks would have been another good alternative. From what I understand 15 were retired to be used as "maintenance trainers". I don't know if they are still flyable nor do I understand why they would be used for maintenance training when the aircraft is no longer in service in the CAF. If not in flyable condition it seems it should be possible to return them to flying condition if they are being used as maintenance training.
Why not put CF-18 Hornets into service for the Snowbirds? Putting seven Hornets into service for an air demonstration role doesn't preclude pressing them into a combat role if required. The BAE Hawks would have been another good alternative. From what I understand 15 were retired to be used as "maintenance trainers". I don't know if they are still flyable nor do I understand why they would be used for maintenance training when the aircraft is no longer in service in the CAF. If not in flyable condition it seems it should be possible to return them to flying condition if they are being used as maintenance training.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
The IMF and Wikipedia say 11.
GDP by Country (2026) - Worldometer
Countries in the world ranked by Gross Domestic Product (GDP). List and ranking of GDP growth, GDP per capita and country share of World's GDP
www.worldometers.info
List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia
But I expect the positions one up or down can move often.
I would not be surprised if the new 2030s Snowbirds are operated and flown by a federal tourism agency rather than the RCAF, likely with a strong 3P portion. Much how HMCS Haida is operated by Parks Canada and HMCS Sackville by Canadian Naval Memorial Trust rather than the RCN.
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lenaitch
Senior Member
The Hawks are no longer airworthy. They are dry airframes used to provide entry level training to maintenance personnel. At that level, you don't need to become certified to work on a particular airframe, just learn the basic concepts.
I'm certain no aeronautical engineer, but it is my understand that air demonstration aircraft, particularly ones derived from combat aircraft, are 'tuned' differently in terms of flight and engine controls (and maybe other functions) to achieve a level of precision that is not needed in their original combat design. I'm not sure that would make them suitable for 'dual role' service.
The way I understand it, with the loss of the Hawk, we no longer have an advanced 'fast jet' trainer, and are currently farming that stage out. When/if they get around to picking a replacement and putting it into service, maybe they will transition back to a jet air demonstration aircraft. As a public statement, saying we're retiring the aircraft in favour of another that we have actually committed to buying is better than saying 'we'll see'.
PL1
Senior Member