[MichaelGeorge]

So The Star is saying that the 407 is going toll-free during rush hours in March. This looks like an experiment to see what the effect will be.

Instead of building the 413, or the highway 401 tunnel, why can't the 407 ETR and Doug Ford just free up the 407 for one year to experiment with what it would be like?

 

[PL1]

Instead of building the 413, or the highway 401 tunnel, why can't the 407 ETR and Doug Ford just free up the 407 for one year to experiment with what it would be like?

$$$$

 

[MichaelGeorge]

$$$$

It will always be expensive. What matters is the efficiency of the transportation, and how much traffic it relives, not cost

 

[PL1]

The previous iteration of the PCPO government leased the 407 for 99 years. The 407 International sets the rates. My suspicion is that they would extract maximum pain from the province. Even if the bills were just sent to the province, that would be a minimum of $1.7 billion p.a. (based on 2024 figures). I suspect that would be higher as I imagine more users would drive the 407 for longer distances if they didn't have to pay directly.

Personally, I say that it's not worth it.

 

[MichaelGeorge]

The previous iteration of the PCPO government leased the 407 for 99 years. The 407 International sets the rates. My suspicion is that they would extract maximum pain from the province. Even if the bills were just sent to the province, that would be a minimum of $1.7 billion p.a. (based on 2024 figures). I suspect that would be higher as I imagine more users would drive the 407 for longer distances if they didn't have to pay directly.

Personally, I say that it's not worth it.

more worth it than tunneling the 401, anyway, instead of buying the 407, maybe use the money for transit, or rural area highways like highway 400 extension, or 417 extension.

 

[nfitz]

more worth it than tunneling the 401, anyway, instead of buying the 407, maybe use the money for transit, or rural area highways like highway 400 extension, or 417 extension.

I don't know what buying the 407 does. It's near capacity already at peak. You drop tolls too low, and it turns into a parking lot too - which carries less vehicles than it does now. Which only makes the 401 worse.

 

[SkylineHorizons]

The previous iteration of the PCPO government leased the 407 for 99 years. The 407 International sets the rates. My suspicion is that they would extract maximum pain from the province. Even if the bills were just sent to the province, that would be a minimum of $1.7 billion p.a. (based on 2024 figures). I suspect that would be higher as I imagine more users would drive the 407 for longer distances if they didn't have to pay directly.

Personally, I say that it's not worth it.

Keep in mind that the 407 is majority-owned by the Canada Pension Plan now.

We, as in Ontarians, might be painfully paying for it for now, but we, as Canadians, will ultimately stand to benefit from it—assuming you were part of the working class—since it will help fund our government-provided pensions in the future.

 

[Haljackey]

Would you rather spend $ on existing infrastructure or build something new? I'd go for something new. 413+407 would give you a lot more capacity for the dollar than just the 407, and I'm sure the 407 would quickly run into capacity issues once the tolls are slapped off- meaning it will need more $ for expansion work.

While I see the 401 tunnel as mostly hogwash, the 413 is a statement project for Ford. It will go ahead at all political cost.

 

[nfitz]

We, as in Ontarians, might be painfully paying for it for now, but we, as Canadians, will ultimately stand to benefit from it—assuming you were part of the working class—since it will help fund our government-provided pensions in the future.

It may be a benefit as an investment.

But as it can't increase capacity in peak in the central section much (if any), then what's the benefit other than an investment?

 

[Sunnyside]

It may be a benefit as an investment.

But as it can't increase capacity in peak in the central section much (if any), then what's the benefit other than an investment?

Can’t help but notice again how wide the 407 right of way is. I know the Hydro Corridor isn’t really considered in play, but building a parallel highway and dealing with the wires would still probably be easier than the 401 tunnel. Though it is a pretty significant hydro corridor…

 

[drum118]

Can’t help but notice again how wide the 407 right of way is. I know the Hydro Corridor isn’t really considered in play, but building a parallel highway and dealing with the wires would still probably be easier than the 401 tunnel. Though it is a pretty significant hydro corridor…

You have the plan GO 407 ROW as well some room for the 407 extra lanes for 10 lanes without rebuilding all bridges. Not easy to deal with the hydro corridor.

 

[rbt]

Can’t help but notice again how wide the 407 right of way is.... but building a parallel highway and dealing with the wires would still probably be easier than the 401 tunnel. Though it is a pretty significant hydro corridor…

Harris thought of that workaround. The 407 lease includes a non-compete clause preventing the province from building another highway within a certain distance of the 407.

There is an allowance for public transit, such as BRT or rail, within the 407 corridor.

 

[MichaelGeorge]

Would you rather spend $ on existing infrastructure or build something new? I'd go for something new. 413+407 would give you a lot more capacity for the dollar than just the 407, and I'm sure the 407 would quickly run into capacity issues once the tolls are slapped off- meaning it will need more $ for expansion work.

While I see the 401 tunnel as mostly hogwash, the 413 is a statement project for Ford. It will go ahead at all political cost.

I dont really think it make sense to start building the 413, maybe start with the 407, then try making some multilane divided highways, using maybe stouffville road, and king road, to see what the 413 would be like.

 

[MichaelGeorge]

I dont really think it make sense to start building the 413, maybe start with the 407, then try making some multilane divided highways, using maybe stouffville road, and king road, to see what the 413 would be like.

If you don't know what a multi-lane divided highway is, it is a highway like on-6 south of Guelph, black creek drive, and Highway 7 through Richmond Hill/Vaughan. It is a highway but with traffic lights. A controlled access highway is like highways 401, 400, etc.

 

[ShonTron]

If you don't know what a multi-lane divided highway is, it is a highway like on-6 south of Guelph, black creek drive, and Highway 7 through Richmond Hill/Vaughan. It is a highway but with traffic lights. A controlled access highway is like highways 401, 400, etc.

Actually, Highway 6 between Highway 401 and Guelph is a controlled access highway, even though it has traffic signals. What it means is that access is limited to certain intersections and that private driveway access is restricted or prohibited.