[chrisw]

Introducing Alto, The Alternative

Behind the name,

Introducing Alto, The Alternative

Introducing Alto, The Alternative Français The Future of Passenger Rail The high-speed train connecting Toronto to Québec City has evolved to better meet the needs of Canadians. The decision to rebrand was driven by the need for a name and identity that better reflect our mission. Alto is a name...

altotrain.ca

 

[northyorker1]

Pointing out how some countries built a newer railway like china did in the last 20 years completely ignores the term "institutional learning"

Saying "25 years and cahsr cant even build track" is not helpful knowing that for other countries have had issues with them in the past, but you learn from them.
Of course the 10th rail line you build it will be done so much more efficiently

sure but China has already built 48,000km of HSR in about 25 years or so

 

[Northern Light]

sure but China has already built 48,000km of HSR in about 25 years or so

You're making his point.

Which is that Canada has built zero km of HSR to date, so doesn't have the experience of Chinese builders, and that will take time.

Institutional learning here will exist after we've done a major project of this type.

 

[northyorker1]

You're making his point.

Which is that Canada has built zero km of HSR to date, so doesn't have the experience of Chinese builders, and that will take time.

Institutional learning here will exist after we've done a major project of this type.

That's all fine, but failure to launch is quite a common theme here. China has only started studying HSR in 1997, ie 28 years ago. When did Canada start studying any form of HSR?

 

[generalcanada]

You're making his point.

Which is that Canada has built zero km of HSR to date, so doesn't have the experience of Chinese builders, and that will take time.

Institutional learning here will exist after we've done a major project of this type.

though there is something to be said about the metrolinx externalize all project delivery to private companies.
its not like metrolinx knows about to build metro now. same could be said here

 

[Northern Light]

though there is something to be said about the metrolinx externalize all project delivery to private companies.
its not like metrolinx knows about to build metro now. same could be said here

I agree.

In order to build institutional memory, you have to retain staff over time who have project involvement and are that institutional memory.

At Mx, the predomination of P3s is a problem in this regard, as is very high staff turnover at Mx.

 

[Northern Light]

That's all fine, but failure to launch is quite a common theme here. China has only started studying HSR in 1997, ie 28 years ago. When did Canada start studying any form of HSR?

At the level of detailed design? Never.

At the level of political reports with very high concept, low detail ideas.......decades ago.

But again, this is not unique to Canada. The Second Avenue Subway in NYC was proposed in 1920 and opened in 2017.

This is running off topic though; the point is to stop running down Canada, particularly in a misleading way not consistent with the facts.

Yes, all sorts of nation-building projects have not moved forward though the years; some for the better, others should have been started a long time ago. Moving forward.

 

[sixrings]

I’d rather 80 billion go to building a shepherd subway extension ontario line north and west. Bloor extension to square one and the waterfront and eglinton east lrt. But what do I know. I’m a contrarian.

Btw I take VIA to Ottawa quarterly and to Quebec City annually.

Extra btw this is the liberal version of Doug’s 401 tunnel. The chances of it being built are less than an asteroid hitting us in 2032. Nice photo op though for the outgoing prime minister.

 

[crs1026]

I wonder what the 15 year timespan to opening implies for availability of capital and willingness to invest in the non-Alto aspects of the Corridor.
If “legacy” VIA is held to the current Venture fleet, and money is not made available, for various improvement and maintenance projects, the system will be capacity constrained for a very long period during which time the entire marketability of the corridor will be adversely affected. Similarly the need for a Phase II to London and perhaps Windsor will be painful.
If I were a municipality along the corridor, i would be very vocal about the need for an investment plan and operating relief to keep up with demand and provide growth between now and 2040.
The announcement is all about not needing subsidy, but we are saying the legacy corridor will continue to exist in its current form with current need for subsidy for 15 years. I wonder if Ottawa is comfortable with that.

- Paul

 

[kEiThZ]

I’d rather 80 billion go to building a shepherd subway extension ontario line north and west. Bloor extension to square one and the waterfront and eglinton east lrt. But what do I know. I’m a contrarian.

Btw I take VIA to Ottawa quarterly and to Quebec City annually.

Extra btw this is the liberal version of Doug’s 401 tunnel. The chances of it being built are less than an asteroid hitting us in 2032. Nice photo op though for the outgoing prime minister.

It's federal money. And if they don't build this, we're actually more likely to see federal funds helping build the tunnel of stupidity.

 

[bearcat]

I’d rather 80 billion go to building a shepherd subway extension ontario line north and west. Bloor extension to square one and the waterfront and eglinton east lrt. But what do I know. I’m a contrarian.

Btw I take VIA to Ottawa quarterly and to Quebec City annually.

Extra btw this is the liberal version of Doug’s 401 tunnel. The chances of it being built are less than an asteroid hitting us in 2032. Nice photo op though for the outgoing prime minister.

You may feel the likelihood of this being completed is the same as the 401 tunnel and that's fine, that's your opinion. But you can't claim that the merits and usefulness of the two are anywhere similar.

 

[generalcanada]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-announces-high-speed-rail-quebec-toronto-1.7462538

CBC notes 4$ bilion for the development phase over 5 years

 

[sixrings]

It's federal money. And if they don't build this, we're actually more likely to see federal funds helping build the tunnel of stupidity.

It takes three levels of government to build any transit in Toronto or on GO. There’s no reason the feds couldn’t have announced to match funding on any theoretical transit line to solve congestion which is actually hurting the financial capital of the country.

You want people to stop work from home. You need to get people moving in the gta.

Anyways I don’t understand an outgoing prime minister making really any decisions at this point or having Photo ops and I have voted liberal for close to 30 years.

 

[crs1026]

Anyways I don’t understand an outgoing prime minister making really any decisions at this point or having Photo ops and I have voted liberal for close to 30 years.

The new “line in the sand” that is now drawn by this announcement after decades of just dreaming is really worth celebrating. It doesn’t matter whether the politician is outgoing or even loved…. There is now an alignment within the bureaucracy and within one party that tilts towards investment in something. That’s a huge shift in the solidity of the concept from past decades…. It’s now a statement of “should do” versus “might do”.
The Liberals have been so toe in the water about this idea for the last decade, it’s good to see even this amount of forward momentum. I am sure there will be criticism and dissenting views offered during the upcoming election campaign…. But the idea has roots now.

- Paul

 

[FrankNF]

It's not that I necessarily disagree with the skeptics. I also think there's a very high chance that PP will just cancel this. I would say, however, that I'm less certain about this than I was in the fall.
With the unprecedented political events from the last few months, it seems like a 'nation-building' project might just have some increased appeal. If there's ever a window for HSR in Canada, could this be it?