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No question, there will now be delay. But there are bigger things afoot. Parliament had already been dragged to a standstill, so nothing could have been accomplished anyways. The government reached the lame duck stage months ago. The timing of Trudeau's resignation is unfortunately late in the game, but any forward motion was already stalled. It was clear months ago that an election must come first before any big investment decisions..
I wonder if the Liberals include preliminary VIA HxR funding in their March budget to fund the initial "co-development" phase (first 3-4 years). They know that it will fail a confidence vote but they could use it to make the project an election issue to try to shore up some support in Ontario and Quebec and force the Conservatives to make their position known.
 
I wonder if the Liberals include preliminary VIA HxR funding in their March budget to fund the initial "co-development" phase (first 3-4 years). They know that it will fail a confidence vote but they could use it to make the project an election issue to try to shore up some support in Ontario and Quebec and force the Conservatives to make their position known.

The election issue will be the tariffs and the threats from Trump.

It won't be a carbon tax election.
It won't be a housing election
It won't be an affordability election
It won't be a Trudeau is bad election.
And it won't be a HxR election.
 
The election issue will be the tariffs and the threats from Trump.

It won't be a carbon tax election.
It won't be a housing election
It won't be an affordability election
It won't be a Trudeau is bad election.
And it won't be a HxR election.
That's not how Canadian politics work. The libs getting a new leader isn't somehow a panacea that stops the discussion on your first 4 points. The CPC aren't going "Oh no, Trudeau is gone, now we can't complain about all of the ways the LPC have failed us for the past 10 years", like no, whoever replaces Trudeau will have to face the brunt of all of these criticisms and more.

As much as I dislike him, he has done some good on the transportation front. It is the other stuff that would make me worry about him asPM.

Before HFR was introduced to us, HSR had been discussed over the last decades. The Turbo, from the 1960/70 was an early attempt at it. It is pre Via. It was CN.

There is no political capital to be had on rail at the federal level. That is more with the political climate than much else. The Northlander has been shut down for almost 15 years. So, should we expect GO to not go back for 15 years? Or, can we see how just like at the federal level, there needs to be the political will to do something. Currently, provincially, there is no political will in ON.

Via has been cut back almost to the lowest it can be without shutting down. If we use that same thinking GO Can be severely cut back and still be relevant. For instance, the shorter lines of Richmond Hill and Milton lines could be shut down. Even Stouffville could and still GO transit could exist. The Northlander could be shut down even before it starts up. All of these could hemp ON out of a financial hole if they needed something to pivot on.
Can you come up with a something that resembles a coherent point? "The Northlander has been shut down for almost 15 years. So, should we expect GO to not go back for 15 years?" First, the Northlander has been gone 12 years, not 15. Second, who said anything about matching resurrection timelines? The Northlander is taking a while to come back for reasons completely unrelated to GO London being pulled back.

More importantly, exactly what argument are you trying to provide here? This discussion is about how competent the different levels of government at delivering things like rail projects, and your earlier post was about how allegedly "The province is no better at managing passenger rail", but now you're bringing up that Go would need to shutdown Richmond Hill and Milton to match how the feds have handled VIA. So is the province just as incompetent as VIA or not?

And no, Stouffville, Milton, and Richmond Hill lines aren't going to get shut down, and to imply such an idea is ludicrous. And don't even try to bring up London GO to counter this point, in the province's own words the extension to London was a simple pilot program that they admitted wasn't guaranteed to stick around. In general using its cancellation as some proof that the province sucks at passenger rail and can't maintain services is ridiculous.
When the money is pouring from the feds,it is senseless to not match it and get the most bang for buck. No different than if your work has a thing where you invest a dollar and they will match it, why would you not do it? If tomorrow they stopped, how many would also stop? This boom in transit construction since 2008 has been partly due to needing to create jobs during the Great Recession. With the risk of losing our biggest trading partner, and the biggest economic driver in the province, ON no longer has the funds to do anything with it.
This is some A tier historical revisionism. Neither the OLP nor the OPC were driven to do massive transit expansion because the Feds were pitching in buck for buck, in fact both governments massively invested in transit despite the fact that they had to deal with federal governments that were at worst apathetic, or at best, treated such investments opportunistically. Whilst the Trudeau government did eventually help pitch in to Ford's transit expansion plans, he didn't do so until 2021 where he saw it as an opportunity to get some quick electoral points before that year's election. Until that point, the Ford government was marching ahead with all of the transit expansion without any strong guarantees that the Feds would help them out. And even then, they certainly haven't contributed dollar to dollar as you've claimed. Unless I missed something, to date the feds have only contributed 1.9B to GO Expansion which I shouldn't have to say is barely 10% of what the whole thing will cost, if even that. Like its certainly not a hostile arrangement, but its also absolutely not a case of the provinces chasing free money.
The VI train is canceled because the bridges are unsafe. Much the same reason Gaspe was canceled. Tomorrow if that line was fixed, Via would return, much like Gaspe.Problem is, Via does not own either line. ON does not own any tracks in Eastern ON or Quebec. Via does Via could use the ROW they own to build something.
VIA is absolutely in a position to coordinate with the freight railroads to get the proper track access, and/or to make the proper investments to improve passenger rail. They don't need to own the Kingston Sub in order to add tracks and get their own slots. They've done it before, they could keep doing it. The problem is VIA is chronically underfunded, and don't have the money to make those infra improvements.

Meanwhile, Metrolinx is actively working with the freight railways in order to either buy out corridors, buy track slots, or improve corridors in order to allow more trains to run. The fact that CN owns the Halton Sub between Halwest and Silver isn't a deterrent to building infrastructure to allow for 2WADGO to Kitchener, nor was them owning Bayview Junction a deterrent to build improvements to allow for 2WADGO to West Harbour and Confederation.
 
That's not how Canadian politics work. The libs getting a new leader isn't somehow a panacea that stops the discussion on your first 4 points. The CPC aren't going "Oh no, Trudeau is gone, now we can't complain about all of the ways the LPC have failed us for the past 10 years", like no, whoever replaces Trudeau will have to face the brunt of all of these criticisms and more.

What I mean is that what is in the minds of people today no longer are those things. Trump made sure that the only thing is what will happen when 25% tariffs are applied to everything. So, while this should have been an election on the last 10 years, it will be on the last ~10 days. Fortunately, by now, ever federal political leader,including the Bloc have pushed back hard. So, it will be about which one has the best ideas to deal with it. And if nothing materializes out of it, and we do not see the tariffs, or the tariff talk, it could be hard for PP to argue on the ineffectiveness of the LPC. So, still no HSR talk in any of that.

Can you come up with a something that resembles a coherent point? "The Northlander has been shut down for almost 15 years. So, should we expect GO to not go back for 15 years?" First, the Northlander has been gone 12 years, not 15. Second, who said anything about matching resurrection timelines? The Northlander is taking a while to come back for reasons completely unrelated to GO London being pulled back.

More importantly, exactly what argument are you trying to provide here? This discussion is about how competent the different levels of government at delivering things like rail projects, and your earlier post was about how allegedly "The province is no better at managing passenger rail", but now you're bringing up that Go would need to shutdown Richmond Hill and Milton to match how the feds have handled VIA. So is the province just as incompetent as VIA or not?

Point is, we all can sit here thinking what is to be come of a thing, but unless we have an ear to the PM and Premier's offices, we all are just speaking on a fear of something that may or may not happen.

And no, Stouffville, Milton, and Richmond Hill lines aren't going to get shut down, and to imply such an idea is ludicrous. And don't even try to bring up London GO to counter this point, in the province's own words the extension to London was a simple pilot program that they admitted wasn't guaranteed to stick around. In general using its cancellation as some proof that the province sucks at passenger rail and can't maintain services is ridiculous.

When I saw the schedule the train to and from London would be at Union, I knew it would be shut down due to lack of ridership.
If the PCs need to slash the province's budget, what lines are not well used? How much could that save them? If 25% tariffs are applied to all goods from ON going to the USA, how many companies will pull up their operations in ON and move them? What is ON to do with that loss in tax base? This is why the politicians are saying tariffs are bad. It is more to do with the companies that produce goods than it is about the cost of those goods to the consumer.

This is some A tier historical revisionism. Neither the OLP nor the OPC were driven to do massive transit expansion because the Feds were pitching in buck for buck, in fact both governments massively invested in transit despite the fact that they had to deal with federal governments that were at worst apathetic, or at best, treated such investments opportunistically. Whilst the Trudeau government did eventually help pitch in to Ford's transit expansion plans, he didn't do so until 2021 where he saw it as an opportunity to get some quick electoral points before that year's election. Until that point, the Ford government was marching ahead with all of the transit expansion without any strong guarantees that the Feds would help them out. And even then, they certainly haven't contributed dollar to dollar as you've claimed. Unless I missed something, to date the feds have only contributed 1.9B to GO Expansion which I shouldn't have to say is barely 10% of what the whole thing will cost, if even that. Like its certainly not a hostile arrangement, but its also absolutely not a case of the provinces chasing free money.

So, the 1/3rd between the 3 levels of government for transit funding did not happen? That is what had kicked off this renaissance in transit construction.

VIA is absolutely in a position to coordinate with the freight railroads to get the proper track access, and/or to make the proper investments to improve passenger rail. They don't need to own the Kingston Sub in order to add tracks and get their own slots. They've done it before, they could keep doing it. The problem is VIA is chronically underfunded, and don't have the money to make those infra improvements.

Not VIa. VI, as in Vancouver Island.

Meanwhile, Metrolinx is actively working with the freight railways in order to either buy out corridors, buy track slots, or improve corridors in order to allow more trains to run. The fact that CN owns the Halton Sub between Halwest and Silver isn't a deterrent to build infrastructure to allow for 2WADGO to Kitchener, nor to the Bayview Junction improvements to allow for 2WADGO to West Harbour and Confederation.
If you want to build an HSR network that is within 100km of Union Station, Metrolinx is primed to do it. The fact they do not allow the 'express' Via trains to bypass all GO 'local' trains shows that they are not interested in anything but their operations. If they did, it would show they understand how vital express trains are. They are too tied up in the 2WADon their network to even care about anything in Eastern ON.
 
What I mean is that what is in the minds of people today no longer are those things. Trump made sure that the only thing is what will happen when 25% tariffs are applied to everything. So, while this should have been an election on the last 10 years, it will be on the last ~10 days. Fortunately, by now, ever federal political leader,including the Bloc have pushed back hard. So, it will be about which one has the best ideas to deal with it. And if nothing materializes out of it, and we do not see the tariffs, or the tariff talk, it could be hard for PP to argue on the ineffectiveness of the LPC. So, still no HSR talk in any of that.
That is... I don't even know how to react to this.
Point is, we all can sit here thinking what is to be come of a thing, but unless we have an ear to the PM and Premier's offices, we all are just speaking on a fear of something that may or may not happen.
The only person speaking on a fear of something is you. Most of us are speaking on the reality of the situation.
When I saw the schedule the train to and from London would be at Union, I knew it would be shut down due to lack of ridership.
If the PCs need to slash the province's budget, what lines are not well used? How much could that save them? If 25% tariffs are applied to all goods from ON going to the USA, how many companies will pull up their operations in ON and move them? What is ON to do with that loss in tax base? This is why the politicians are saying tariffs are bad. It is more to do with the companies that produce goods than it is about the cost of those goods to the consumer.
"If the PCs need to slash the province's budget" That is a really big if that flies in the face of everything the current administration has done in the last 6.5 years. Even during the peak of COVID when people were stuck at home in self-isolation, the government didn't shut down any GO line. Now you're telling me that a trade war with the US will cause such a massive economical hit that Ford would genuinely consider shutting down THE MILTON LINE???
So, the 1/3rd between the 3 levels of government for transit funding did not happen? That is what had kicked off this renaissance in transit construction.
Is this 1/3 between the 3 levels of government in the room with us right now? I certainly don't see it. Cost sharing is done mostly on a case by case basis, where the Feds help pay for projects they think will be politically advantageous, and the province offloads to the municipalities whatever they don't want to pay for (mostly just infill GO stations, and community subway stations). Like how much is the City of Toronto paying for the SSE? Last I checked not much.
Not VIa. VI, as in Vancouver Island.
I fully understood what you meant thank you very much.
If you want to build an HSR network that is within 100km of Union Station, Metrolinx is primed to do it. The fact they do not allow the 'express' Via trains to bypass all GO 'local' trains shows that they are not interested in anything but their operations. If they did, it would show they understand how vital express trains are. They are too tied up in the 2WADon their network to even care about anything in Eastern ON.
Wow, I have no idea how you managed to do it, but you somehow completely missed the point in a way that only you can achieve. Congratulations.
 
Regarding the change in government, may I remind people of clause 66. of the Conservative Party Policy Declaration:



Is that equal to a guarantee that they won't kill the project? No. But I do think it means we can at least be a little hopeful that this may survive a new government.
The convention policy making is just to placate the base to feel they are consulted. That policy gets put on the shelf and the handful of people around the leader make the platform.
 
The convention policy making is just to placate the base to feel they are consulted. That policy gets put on the shelf and the handful of people around the leader make the platform.
Its not proof that it will 100% happen, but it's also enough to disprove the idea that it will definitely be cancelled. Fact of the matter is, the CPC has made very few comments regarding what they're planning to do with HxR, and as such its impossible to definitively say one way or the other what they're planning to do. Anyone who claims otherwise is being dishonest.
 
The Liberals have allowed this project to scope-creep to a point where it certainly can‘t „100% happen“, as neither the federal government nor the private investors have $40+ billion lying around to pay for it. That said, there certainly is enough fat to cut away to still fund and build something much more modest as a „Stage 1“, thus allowing PP to not just humiliate the Liberals by „by cutting through Liberal waste“ but also by „actually getting things done instead of lofty, but unfullfilled Liberal promises“.

My prediction is that neither 100% nor 0% of the lofty promises we are hearing from the VIA HFR-TGF folks and their political masters will happen, but maybe 10-20%. A 200 km/h fast Montreal-Ottawa corridor with hourly service which can be built within 5 years and will form the foundation of any future HSR network would certainly not be the worst-possible outcome…
 
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Its not proof that it will 100% happen, but it's also enough to disprove the idea that it will definitely be cancelled. Fact of the matter is, the CPC has made very few comments regarding what they're planning to do with HxR, and as such its impossible to definitively say one way or the other what they're planning to do. Anyone who claims otherwise is being dishonest.
We won't know anything until the money flows or doesn't.
 
The Liberals have allowed this project to scope-creep to a point where it certainly can‘t „100% happen“, as neither the federal government nor the private investors have $40+ billion lying around to pay for it. That said, there certainly is enough fat to cut away to still fund and build something much more modest as a „Stage 1“, thus allowing PP to not just humiliate the Liberals by „by cutting through Liberal waste“ but also by „actually getting things done instead of lofty, but unfullfilled Liberal promises“.

My prediction is that neither 100% nor 0% of the lofty promises we are hearing from the VIA HFR-TGF folks and their political masters will happen, but maybe 10-20%. A 200 km/h fast Montreal-Ottawa corridor with hourly service which can be built within 5 years and will form the foundation of any future HSR network would certainly not be the worst-possible outcome…
Something cheap capable of 200 kph won't be the foundation of HSR because the expensive part of HSR is straight ROW with adequate grade separation.
 
Something cheap capable of 200 kph won't be the foundation of HSR because the expensive part of HSR is straight ROW with adequate grade separation.
The difference between 200 km/h and 300 km/h for Montreal-Ottawa is maybe 10 minutes. It won’t determine whether the travel time between Montreal and Toronto is 5, 4 or just 3 hours. It is exactly your „HSR or nothing“ thinking which leaves us reliably with some rather insignificant variation of the Status Quo…
 
Say it with me everyone! HFR should be a provincialfederal project! The federal & provincial governments isare genuinely useless in most respects at this point.
Fixed it for you.

I have said it before but the Toronto Provincial Government is extraordinarily myopic and thinks Ontario ends outside of the GTHA. Just compare the difference between the Eglington line and the O-Train. They are both a similar length, but one is fully paid for by the province (including operating costs) and the other the province paid only 1/3 of the budgeted construction costs (before inflation) and refuses to help with any operating costs.
 
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