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PL1 said:
Under Biden, the US deported over a million people in 2023. This was hardly "doing nothing"
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Fair point, and for a single term President that's about average, and more than Trump's first term. In their two terms, Obama removed 3.2 million, while Clinton and GWB both removed about 2 million.

But border security and immigration is more about stopping them getting in, not getting them out. That was Biden's failure, with illegal entrants at the southern border reaching their all time high of 1.7 to 2.4 million per year, for a total of over 7 million illegal entrants or encounters over Biden's presidency. During Obama's eight years the average was 400,000–500,000 illegal encounters a year. Biden just did not have the ear of the people on this issue. Recall that on his first day in office, Biden reversed many of Trump's policies on immigration, such as halting the construction of the Mexico–United States border wall, travel ban, and signed an executive order to reaffirm protections for DACA recipients. It's no wonder there was a run for the border.
 
Admiral Beez said:
That's intentional. Much to the worry of those in the tourism trade, the US administration does not want visitors of any sort. "It's not a big deal".

Let's not go full Godwin just yet. Yes, there are genuine UN Convention Refugees that deserve hearings, but those who've overstayed their visas or otherwise entered the US illegally are not fleeing state-sponsored genocide. They're by far economic migrants from countries that have gone to shite. When my family decided to leave a failing UK, my Dad applied at the Canadian High Commission in London and waited his turn. That's how it's done. And if Canada had rejected us, we would have stayed in the UK, or considered applying to other countries. So, if the US rejects your, and perhaps every LATAM's application, that's their right, and you have no right to enter the US illegally because you don't like their decision.
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US not respecting due process rights is very concerning. They can abscond any visitor to prison, even to third party countries like El Salvador. I am not stepping foot in the US while the US administration holds this position.
 
PL1 said:
Under Biden, the US deported over a million people in 2023. This was hardly "doing nothing"
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On the U.S. (illegal) immigration front, there is something remarkably easy that Biden, or Trump or other U.S. Presidents before could have done.

Make E-Verify mandatory.

(this is system under which an employer can check, online, whether a prospective employee is legally allowed to work in the U.S.)

IF this were done, most employment for 'illegals' would dry up outside very small scale, personal, and black market jobs.

The requirement is mandated (partially) in 22 States but often comes with a glorious number of loopholes such as exempting employers with fewer than 25 staff.

There are conflicting positions on whether it could be mandated by Executive Order alone......though Trump has stretched that power farther already.

Suffice to say, that Congress could make it mandatory, and Trump has them voting like trained seals.........funny though, I am given to understand that there was language to do just that in a draft of Trump's budget bill this year, but the language to
do that mysterious disappeared in the bill being voted on....

The absence of lawful employment would, in theory, lead to a lot of self-deportation.............and discourage new entrants.

Of course, those aforementioned loopholes would need addressing. This article outlines how workers and companies cheat even in states and with employers where the system is mandatory.


Lets be clear the loopholes and voluntary compliance are an intended feature, not a bug.

The U.S. is reliant on a cheap, under-class of labour, without it landscaping, roofing, agriculture and meat packing would be decimated, not to mention a national shortage of nannies.

The theatre were are seeing is real enough to those who fall victim to it......... but that makes it no less theatre, in which Trump is the latest in a long line to pretend to want to address the issue concretely while actually doing nothing of the sort.

****

For the record, ICE deported 17,000 people in April, the most of any month thus far.

But that's an annual pace of just over 200,000. However, conservatively, there are 10,000,000 undocumented persons in the U.S. and it could be up to double that.

Trump's nonsense promise was to deport 10,000,000+ but the U.S. has no capacity to carry that out, nor is it likely to in the near term. To hit that number by end of Trump's term, they would have to ramp up monthly deportations to over 200,000 per month.......or about 12x the current rate.
 
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^They're also deporting people that just look funny and not just the undocumented only. So those numbers under this admin are likely padded at best...
 
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Northern Light said:
The theatre were are seeing is real enough to those who fall victim to it......... but that makes it no less theatre, in which Trump is the latest in a long line to pretend to want to address the issue concretely while actually doing nothing of the sort.
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It is noteworthy that ICE is driving around Home Depots hoping to catch the occasional day labourer, when all they need is a small team at the front door of any Tyson chicken plant.
 
PinkLucy said:
Unless you work for a Trump supporting farmer. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/trump-farmworkers-hotel-workers-undocumented-legal-rcna200722
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It goes to the point that the undocumented actually stabilize the economy in many sectors, in addition to bringing money into the local economies that doesn't leave the country...because they're doing jobs no one else wants to really do.

...it's the case of this admin shooting themselves to save their hatred and bigotry. This article suggest they're even stupidly aware of that. /sigh
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
It goes to the point that the undocumented actually stabilize the economy in many sectors, in addition to bringing money into the local economies that doesn't leave the country...because they're doing jobs no one else wants to really do.

...it's the case of this admin shooting themselves to save their hatred and bigotry. This article suggest they're even stupidly aware of that. /sigh
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Well now, I have no time for Trump and every sympathy for those disadvantaged, but I can't agree that a slave labour class is a desirable/necessary thing.

The reality is, that if those people (undocumented workers) weren't available.........those jobs would pay more money and feature better working conditions such that some people would want those jobs.

Saying there's no one willing to work a 12-hour day, in a tough job with a line that moves too quickly, in place with a poor safety record that pays minimum wage........is like saying people don't want to treated badly and starve despite working full-time hours.

Duh?

Take that same job with an 8-hour shift, 3 weeks paid vacation, better workplace safety, a slower moving line, and $20 USD per hour + health insurance in a low-cost area.........and you'll fill those jobs.

That's not to endorse mass deportation, nor to fail to admit, that if the latter were carried out all at once it would be profoundly destabilizing; but merely to point out, that a gradual shift away from slave-like labour, to better paying jobs with
better working conditions is clearly preferable to the status quo.
 
^You won't get any arguments from me on that...as that pretty much goes for most people who do not get their worth when being paid outside of salaried execs (then that's the complete opposite and grossly so).

However, and that said...I will not dismiss the actuals and reality of the matter here. Whether I agree with slave labour tactics (I don't) is entirely another matter...
 
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Northern Light said:
On the U.S. (illegal) immigration front, there is something remarkably easy that Biden, or Trump or other U.S. Presidents before could have done.

Make E-Verify mandatory.

(this is system under which an employer can check, online, whether a prospective employee is legally allowed to work in the U.S.)

IF this were done, most employment for 'illegals' would dry up outside very small scale, personal, and black market jobs.

The requirement is mandated (partially) in 22 States but often comes with a glorious number of loopholes such as exempting employers with fewer than 25 staff.

There are conflicting positions on whether it could be mandated by Executive Order alone......though Trump has stretched that power farther already.

Suffice to say, that Congress could make it mandatory, and Trump has them voting like trained seals.........funny though, I am given to understand that there was language to do just that in a draft of Trump's budget bill this year, but the language to
do that mysterious disappeared in the bill being voted on....
Click to expand...
Two problems:

- normal people and politicians who can afford to hire household staff would be deprived of their services, and
- if it worked as well as their voting system across multiple jurisdictions, it would be doomed to failure.
 
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