[nfitz]

Human beings interact with the crossings and equipment can fail. You can’t just fiddle with the rules, increasing the chances of people taking chances, and say it will be okay on the day

2013 Ottawa bus–train crash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I see nothing in the reporting about that crash, that put ANY of the blame on anything to do with the railway, railway equipment, or waiting times. The bus never even stopped moving, despite the barrier having gone down - and it dropped while the driver could see it in the distance, so he wouldn't think it was broken.

Can you how on you think railway rule changes impacted this accident?

 

[dowlingm]

I see nothing in the reporting about that crash, that put ANY of the blame on anything to do with the railway, railway equipment, or waiting times. The bus never even stopped moving, despite the barrier having gone down - and it dropped while the driver could see it in the distance, so he wouldn't think it was broken.

Can you how on you think railway rule changes impacted this accident?

Did you notice the part later in the article about railway equipment found to be malfunctioning when observations were done post crash. The concerns about grade crossings in Ottawa went far beyond that one incident

Railway Wrecks in the Ottawa Area - 2022 Ottawa, Jockvale Road

Ottawa rail crossings dogged by more signal problems

Two more signal glitches occurred Monday morning at Ottawa railway crossings, days after politicians demanded Via Rail fix similar problems nearby. Since Friday, Vi…

ottawacitizen.com

 

[nfitz]

Did you notice the part later in the article about railway equipment found to be malfunctioning when observations were done post crash. The concerns about grade crossings in Ottawa went far beyond that one incident

Railway Wrecks in the Ottawa Area - 2022 Ottawa, Jockvale Road

Ottawa rail crossings dogged by more signal problems

Two more signal glitches occurred Monday morning at Ottawa railway crossings, days after politicians demanded Via Rail fix similar problems nearby. Since Friday, Vi…

ottawacitizen.com

I didn't see that - but surely that has no impact on this particular accident. If the bus stopped, and then started again, then perhaps you have a point. But my understanding is that this wasn't a factor.

I think that there were 39 lawsuits against the City of Ottawa and none against the railways tells all here.

 

[lenaitch]

If GO can offer a meandering Six Nations - Brantford - Aldershot train meet service then they absolutely can offer a similar Barrie - Georgian College - Orilla - Rama - Washago bus

I don’t know much about Orilla but a central location is a good stop gap. Near the Waterfront Centre seems like a good location. Something for GO / ON / and regional services can all meet at.

I’m a little disappointed that GO have offers buses extending from Barrie to the hinterlands the same way Aldershot and Oshawa serve as a convergence point.

Not everyone on the Northlander will be heading to Toronto so having a connecting GO bus would be a nice connection to Barrie and along the 400 corridor.

Yes, a waterfront location that centres on a marina and parkland would a fine place to run highway coaches into, particularly the ones at night and weekends. Maybe all the city transit buses could converge there too.

 

[smallspy]

So you close the crossing early for slow freight trains. Big woop.

Average driver would encounter this no more than once a day. Currently average VIA train encounters the issue ... how many times a trip? A dozen? More?

It is a big woop Multiple studies have found that leaving the lights on and gates down longer than absolutely necessary greatly increases the chances of people growing tired of waiting and trying to zip around them. 22 seconds is seen as the sweet spot.

Dan

 

[Garuda]

I have always thought the GO buses should extend out further than the train and be for building demand to extend the trains. The challenge though with Orillia is you cannot get there by train. To go down that rabbit hole is well into fantasyland. Saying that, An Oriliia express bus to Allendale would make sense.

In world where Lake Simcoe didn’t exist and North Bay and Sudbury were merged into one city with a population of 400k I could see a frequent multiple trains a day service with ON running 2 trains a day. Lots of riders along a linear route with some decent sized towns along the line.

But yeah I hope GO would consider running seasonal summer and regular service beyond Barrie to build demand for trains.

 

[micheal_can]

Yes, a waterfront location that centres on a marina and parkland would a fine place to run highway coaches into, particularly the ones at night and weekends. Maybe all the city transit buses could converge there too.

For an Orillia station, why not reuse the old station?

In world where Lake Simcoe didn’t exist and North Bay and Sudbury were merged into one city with a population of 400k I could see a frequent multiple trains a day service with ON running 2 trains a day. Lots of riders along a linear route with some decent sized towns along the line.

But yeah I hope GO would consider running seasonal summer and regular service beyond Barrie to build demand for trains.

What could be done would be to have one daily going the whole route, and one seasonally just between Toronto and North Bay/Sudbury as a 'cottage run' have the existing future one set up best for people of the north, and have the second seasonal one set up as being best for cottagers.

As far as GO, I don't think extending it much past Orillia and Midland would make sense. An easier, interim solution could be an ONR bus that goes to Allendale in time for one of the runs each way.

 

[nfitz]

It is a big woop Multiple studies have found that leaving the lights on and gates down longer than absolutely necessary greatly increases the chances of people growing tired of waiting and trying to zip around them. 22 seconds is seen as the sweet spot.

Then put in proper barriers like you see on 200 km/hr track in other countries, where you can't zip around them.

Or use the equipment that seems to work just fine in other North American railways.

I'd have thought the absurdly flimsy North American barriers that only have one arm, and you can just walk around them would be more dangerous than drivers being idiots.

 

[lenaitch]

For an Orillia station, why not reuse the old station?

Because it's privately owned. The city sold it when it decided it didn't want to own a building that none of its assets or departments used (maybe the tourism office - I can't remember). it ws never used by nor was it suitable for city transit.

 

[dowlingm]

Then put in proper barriers like you see on 200 km/hr track in other countries, where you can't zip around them.

Or use the equipment that seems to work just fine in other North American railways.

I'd have thought the absurdly flimsy North American barriers that only have one arm, and you can just walk around them would be more dangerous than drivers being idiots.

View attachment 657310
View attachment 657314

Those barriers aren’t impregnable. Plenty of examples of four arm gates being snapped off their hinges. Even where there are four arms, they are usually staggered dropping to give a vehicle with a gate dropped behind it somewhere to go

Irish Rail releases footage of level crossing crashes and near-misses as part of safety appeal

There have been 30 incidents of misuse of the crossings so far this year, with 11 of these resulting in injury to a person or damage to the crossing.

www.thejournal.ie

 

[nfitz]

Those barriers aren’t impregnable. Plenty of examples of four arm gates being snapped off their hinges. Even where there are four arms, they are usually staggered dropping to give a vehicle with a gate dropped behind it somewhere to go

Irish Rail releases footage of level crossing crashes and near-misses as part of safety appeal

There have been 30 incidents of misuse of the crossings so far this year, with 11 of these resulting in injury to a person or damage to the crossing.

www.thejournal.ie

They aren't supposed to be impregnable; if they were a vehicle that's trapped couldn't leave.

I see zero examples in that Irish video of cars trying to enter the crossing after the barrier has closed. Most of it's pedestrians. And the rest are vehicles trying to cross late, but before the barriers are fully down. The article talks about misuse of crossings, and then starts discussing people who are speeding through crossings!

The issue we are currently is zero of those cases. There's also been zero fatalities in Ireland for 15 years! Canada averages over 25 a year!

 

[micheal_can]

Because it's privately owned. The city sold it when it decided it didn't want to own a building that none of its assets or departments used (maybe the tourism office - I can't remember). it ws never used by nor was it suitable for city transit.

Is there a better spot for one that would be better suited for city transit that might also be a place that tracks might be able to be laid if there was ever the demand? I know much of the ROW of the old Newmarket Sub is built upon. Or is it a case that if rail was ever to come back,it would need to be located outside of the city?

 

[lenaitch]

Is there a better spot for one that would be better suited for city transit that might also be a place that tracks might be able to be laid if there was ever the demand? I know much of the ROW of the old Newmarket Sub is built upon. Or is it a case that if rail was ever to come back,it would need to be located outside of the city?

Ya . . . Washago.

I'm sure the city would do its planning - for a transit terminal it obviously does not want or need - around a fantasy scenario.

 

[micheal_can]

Ya . . . Washago.

I'm sure the city would do its planning - for a transit terminal it obviously does not want or need - around a fantasy scenario.

West St and Mississauga ST is where they have their terminal. Would it make sense to have a GO bus stop there to build ridership?

 

[lenaitch]

West St and Mississauga ST is where they have their terminal. Would it make sense to have a GO bus stop there to build ridership?

It's not a terminal; it's an intersection where the routes converge. ON buses apparently stop there now (and Georgian College). There is no coordination of transit and ON schedules and some ON arrivals are outside of transit service hours. I suppose GO could add to it if they chose to run a route to the city. The city is already served by a number of ON buses between Toronto-Barrie-NB and Toronto-Barrie-Sudbury.