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Should the LCBO be deregulated?

  • Total voters
    169
  • Poll closed .
Towered said:
I don't get the whole point of returning empties - why not just toss them in the blue bin?
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On my weekly beer run I return over 40 cans on average i.e. I get over $4 back. That is money that I cannot afford to throw away.

With all the closures of Beer Stores I am afraid that I will not have a Beer Store within walking distance of where I live to return my empties even though I am in the heart of downtown. Not only will I not have a place to return my empties I will lose out on volume discounts. The Beer Store provides volume discounts. The LCBO and supermarkets don't. If a buy a 24 of beer at the Beer Store I save about $5 dollars compared to buying beer at the LCBO or supermarket. So together with my empties that represents about a $9 savings each week on Beer purchases. Again, I cannot afford to throw $9 a week away.

While it is nice to have the convenience to be able to buy beer in supermarkets and the LCBO if one is close by the default choice for beer consumers should be the Beer Store if all things are considered equal. Luckily for me it is just as easy for me to walk to the nearest Beer Store as it is the nearest LCBO or supermarket that carries beer.

I also think about the countless poor people who I see who live in my area who collect empties as a way of supplementing their meagre incomes. What happens to these people if they don't have a Beer Store to return the empties they collect? They don't own cars!
 
If the Beer Store goes away, and no alternative deposit return exists, the deposits would no longer be collected so the price you pay for alcohol would go down.

A deposit system is really useful for getting the bottles back for reuse and I believe the standard brown bottle gets 14 fills over its life. Not sure that any of the custom glass gets back to its bottler and is probably getting crushed for a much more energy intensive recycling process.
 
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max said:
If the Beer Store goes away, and no alternative deposit return exists, the deposits would no longer be collected so the price you pay for alcohol would go down.

A deposit system is really useful for getting the bottles back for reuse and I believe the standard brown bottle gets 14 fills over its life. Not sure that any of the custom glass gets back to its bottler and is probably getting crushed for a much more energy intensive recycling process.
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In other jurisdictions, they have and use recycling depots for ALL recyclable cans, bottles, and containers. They tend to be located at or near supermarkets or grocery stores. They also use vending machines, but not Ontario. In Europe, the deposit is also higher, so you would get a bigger return on the bottles, cans, and containers.
 
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EBT said:
On my weekly beer run I return over 40 cans on average i.e. I get over $4 back. That is money that I cannot afford to throw away.

With all the closures of Beer Stores I am afraid that I will not have a Beer Store within walking distance of where I live to return my empties even though I am in the heart of downtown. Not only will I not have a place to return my empties I will lose out on volume discounts. The Beer Store provides volume discounts. The LCBO and supermarkets don't. If a buy a 24 of beer at the Beer Store I save about $5 dollars compared to buying beer at the LCBO or supermarket. So together with my empties that represents about a $9 savings each week on Beer purchases. Again, I cannot afford to throw $9 a week away.

While it is nice to have the convenience to be able to buy beer in supermarkets and the LCBO if one is close by the default choice for beer consumers should be the Beer Store if all things are considered equal. Luckily for me it is just as easy for me to walk to the nearest Beer Store as it is the nearest LCBO or supermarket that carries beer.

I also think about the countless poor people who I see who live in my area who collect empties as a way of supplementing their meagre incomes. What happens to these people if they don't have a Beer Store to return the empties they collect? They don't own cars!
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40 cans a week equals 5.7 cans per day - is that just you or your whole household?
 

Here's what to do with your empties in Ontario as Beer Stores close down​


From https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2025/06/what-do-empties-ontario-beer-stores-close/

As Beer Store locations across Ontario gradually shut down, residents are wondering where the heck they're supposed to return their empty alcohol cans and bottles if and when their neighbourhood outpost of the chain closes.

Since 2007, The Beer Store (TBS) has been accepting these returns for deposits under the Ontario Deposit Return Program (ODRP), which is administered by it, the provincial government, and the LCBO.

But, with alcohol sale rules amended last year to allow convenience stores and a wider range of supermarkets to offer select adult beverages, these points of purchase will now also become part of the program.
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Under a new agreement, starting January 1, 2026, all grocery stores over 4,000 sq. ft. and more than 5 km from an operating Beer Store will be required to accept empty containers from consumers, and refund the deposits that are rolled into the price of canned and bottled drinks as a condition of their liquor licence.

(As of October 31, 2024, some already are, while all must have signage directing consumers where they can bring back their empties for recycling. Convenience Stores are exempt, but can partake if they so choose.)

As outlined by the Province, The Beer Store is still "responsible for handling the reverse logistics and the collection of all empty liquor containers, including empty Beer containers," but must also now "manage and bear the costs of the TBS Beer Container Recovery System, including extending the TBS Beer Container Recovery System to all retailers."

A representative from the provincial government told us over email that the retailer will continue to helm Ontario's recycling program for these containers "until at least 2031," during what is a huge transitionary period for the market.

"Stores that accept empties have the opportunity to follow the standard arrangement with The Beer Store, or they can enter into their own alternative arrangement for empty drop off and pick up," Colin Blachar at the Ministry of Finance explains.

"Options include being able to join together for the process or using alternative locations for empty pick up and drop off."

Unfortunately, as of late May, it seems that some grocers are actually considering opting out of alcohol sales altogether to avoid having to participate in the recycling initiative. Per CityNews, only 13 of 70 supermarkets more than 5km from a Beer Store have opted in thus far.

An interactive online map provided on the Ontario website indicates where consumers can procure alcoholic beverages provincewide, as well as at which locations they can return their empties.
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But, it appears that nearly all of the copious listings on this crucial tool are Beer Store outposts. In and around Toronto, for instance, the nearest non-Beer Store shops taking alcoholic bottles and cans are LCBO Convenience Outlets located at:

  • Food Basics, 9600 Islington Avenue, Vaughan, ON
  • Esso Gas and Convenience Store, 2250 Highway 7 East, Pickering, ON
  • Ultramar Gas and Convenience Store, 5267 Aurora Road, Stouffville, ON
  • Esso Gas and Convenience Store, 1521 Charleston Sideroad, Caledon, ON
  • Ultramar Gas and Convenience Store, 311 Brock Road South, Guelph, ON
  • Carlisle Cleaners & Alterations, 278 Carlisle Road, Carlisle, ON
  • Four Leaf Clover Ltd., 10779 Guelph Line, Campbellville, ON
  • Foodland, 209 Alma Street, Rockwood, ON
  • Lyndon General Store, 128 Lynden Road, Lynden, ON
  • Foodland, 19263 Highway 48, Mount Albert, ON
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The PDF of the new agreement: https://www.ontario.ca/files/2024-05/mof-early-implementation-agreement-2024-05-23.pdf

I would have thought the LCBO should be accepting bottle and can returns as well.
 
Monarch Butterfly said:
I would have thought the LCBO should be accepting bottle and can returns as well.
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Nope, most LCBOs are too small.

You really need over 10,000ft2 to make it work. Even then...its tight.

Also, the gov't would have to pay for the re-fit.

They've tried to push into on grocers..........but I think they're at risk of a lot of grocers giving booze up come Jan. 1st if they don't relent/defer the obligation.
 
Northern Light said:
Nope, most LCBOs are too small.

You really need over 10,000ft2 to make it work. Even then...its tight.

Also, the gov't would have to pay for the re-fit.

They've tried to push into on grocers..........but I think they're at risk of a lot of grocers giving booze up come Jan. 1st if they don't relent/defer the obligation.
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I agree. If the government had done decent research instead of forging ahead with its populist 'booze everywhere' agenda it might have revealed that the grocers had no interest in this part of the deal and, like you, I suspect many will drop their licence. I'm curious what the government thought would happen to the deposit-return system once The Beer Store started to lose market share. I suspect they didn't think about it very much.
 
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Monarch Butterfly said:
Yet in the 1950's the supermarkets were fine handling pop bottles returns with smaller square footage. Even small convenience stores of the time handled pop bottle returns. How else would kids like me get the money to buy a 10¢ comic book by picking up a couple of empty bottles of Wilson's Ginger Ale.
View attachment 658414
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No question it can be done...............but the business model has changed, the typical layout has changed................so its not quite as easy as you make it out to be.
 
Northern Light said:
Nope, most LCBOs are too small.

You really need over 10,000ft2 to make it work. Even then...its tight.

Also, the gov't would have to pay for the re-fit.

They've tried to push into on grocers..........but I think they're at risk of a lot of grocers giving booze up come Jan. 1st if they don't relent/defer the obligation.
Click to expand...

I took my empties back to the liquor stores in BC no problem. Most stores were pretty small compared to the LCBO's here.
 
According to their returnable container act (https://dec.ny.gov/environmental-protection/recycling-composting/bottle-bill/get-money-back) they can only accept containers that are sold there. That means sorting and bringing your containers to multiple locations because their grocery stores don’t sell wine or liquor.

And yes a machine would make it easier, but we aren’t currently doing that, so I am saying that using the system we currently have in place (comparing apples with apples) would be less than optimal in a grocery store setting.

I would also be curious to see the numbers on returns in Ontario vs NY state. Any time I have been to return empties in Ontario, there is a lot of volume of bottles and people often lined up waiting. I haven’t seen that kind of volume while grocery shopping in NY (which I have done many times).
 
I wonder if bottle return machines would work in a world where only alcoholic beverage containers (glass and can) are eligible. I really don't know how the industry works but when we lived near Midland, I would often see people returning truckloads of containers, usually on a Monday. I don't know if they were business owners or just had partying families, but I doubt people would bother feeding them one at a time into a machine.
 
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