[DSCToronto]

Thanks for the details. As someone who had to ride the 504 through gridlock for decades and then to see it finally work, I’m really jumpy about that being taken away, specially considering the provincial leadership and the ease with which Chow can be replaced with a conservative mayor. We’re sitting ducks. She needs to take action to begin making the changes irreversible or at least make it so that a reversal would require expending too much political capital that it’s not easily done.

Yes, Chow's amendment was 'perfect' and allows vehicles on King only from Yonge to Church (which is blocked off.)

All laws can be changed - usually by a simple majority. There is no way I know of to make a traffic change 'permanent' - except MAYBE to totally rebuild the street so that getting traffic back on it would be too expensive - and Doug, for example, seems not to care about (other peoples) wasted $$ with his stupid war on bike lanes!)

 

[Jonny5]

Yes, Chow's amendment was 'perfect' and allows vehicles on King only from Yonge to Church (which is blocked off.)

All laws can be changed - usually by a simple majority. There is no way I know of to make a traffic change 'permanent' - except MAYBE to totally rebuild the street so that getting traffic back on it would be too expensive - and Doug, for example, seems not to care about (other peoples) wasted $$ with his stupid war on bike lanes!)

Will be interesting to see the result as I assume this allows vehicles to get past Yonge to Victoria, so I suspect Victoria/Adelaide will become gridlocked and a new choke point, though I'm sure the King Edward hotel loves this change as rideshare pickups can now get out of there across to University without turning.

Also in the council meeting video the staff member from transportation says it would take them 2.5 weeks to reprogram all the signals on King, which regardless of what you think about the proposal, that seems absurd their staff would need over two weeks to accomplish that. I would really like to know how and why that is so complicated when they simultaneously talk about how they can alter the duration of red/green lights on the fly with their advanced tech. You can't have it both ways.There seems to be a long history of this group saying they have the most advanced and best technology and system in the world, yet it's quite obvious they are decades behind.

 

[DSCToronto]

Will be interesting to see the result as I assume this allows vehicles to get past Yonge to Victoria, so I suspect Victoria will become gridlocked and a new choke point.

Also in the council meeting video the staff member from transportation says it would take them 2.5 weeks to reprogram all the signals on King, which regardless of what you think about the proposal, that seems absurd their staff would need over two weeks to accomplish that. I would really like to know how and why that is so complicated when they simultaneously talk about how they can alter the duration of red/green lights on the fly with their advanced tech. You can't have it both ways.

There sems to be a long history of this group saying they have the most advanced and best technology and system in the world, yet it's quite obvious they are decades behind.

Yes, vehicles will be able to go a bit further east on King or turn east from Yonge to get to Victoria (and Toronto) Streets to go north. Both streets may get gridlocked but when a major intersection (e.g. King/Church) is blocked in an already crowded area of fairly narrow streets what do you expect?. The City can certainly do more (or do it faster) to speed up traffic but at the end of the day they need to reduce the number of vehicles by actions like more/better TRANSIT, congestion pricing and much higher parking rates. Will that happen? Not with Ford around, or maybe ever.

 

[Mihairokov]

Yes, Chow's amendment was 'perfect' and allows vehicles on King only from Yonge to Church (which is blocked off.)

Was initially hesitant of the motion but it sure seems like Chow played politics on Bradford here. Definite poison pill.

Like I said earlier, Bradford doesn't know what he's talking about and is trying to use culture wars bullshit for cheap political points. Glad we have a mayor that is able to counter that. Yonge-Church can have all the cars they like when buses and streetcars aren't able to go there.

 

[PL1]

Was initially hesitant of the motion but it sure seems like Chow played politics on Bradford here. Definite poison pill.

Like I said earlier, Bradford doesn't know what he's talking about and is trying to use culture wars bullshit for cheap political points. Glad we have a mayor that is able to counter that. Yonge-Church can have all the cars they like when buses and streetcars aren't able to go there.

Bradford is on his way to becoming the east end Holyday

 

[txlseries4]

Bradford is on his way to becoming the east end Holyday

A year after he won his ward with 55%, Bradford didn't even crack 5% support from his own ward for the '23 Mayoral by-election, even with 9200 more of his constituents voting in that election. Maybe all this sabre-rattling is because he thinks a shot at Mayor is the most likely way for him to stay in politics.

 

[nightstreak]

All laws can be changed - usually by a simple majority. There is no way I know of to make a traffic change 'permanent' - except MAYBE to totally rebuild the street so that getting traffic back on it would be too expensive -

Yes, that's the point I've been making. Building out the sidewalks into the curb lanes where they are currently temporarily blocked by a jersey barrier or a "Lego" transit platform would require ripping up the street to restore car traffic. As it stands today, simply removing the jersey barriers and the No Through Traffic signs could end the King Street transitway over night.

City policy is stated as rebuilding sidewalks in the new configuration after a project tears them down. But the city doesnt appear to be following its own policy and Chow isn't leading on this at all. She has an opening to make the transit priority corridor stick for long after she's gone — and I suspect that won't be long from now. The next election is 15 months away.

 

[DSCToronto]

Yes, that's the point I've been making. Building out the sidewalks into the curb lanes where they are currently temporarily blocked by a jersey barrier or a "Lego" transit platform would require ripping up the street to restore car traffic. As it stands today, simply removing the jersey barriers and the No Through Traffic signs could end the King Street transitway over night.

City policy is stated as rebuilding sidewalks in the new configuration after a project tears them down. But the city doesnt appear to be following its own policy and Chow isn't leading on this at all. She has an opening to make the transit priority corridor stick for long after she's gone — and I suspect that won't be long from now. The next election is 15 months away.

As others have pointed out here, the reason given by the City for not (yet) rebuilding King is because there is one (or maybe two) large very old watermains on King and they need to be replaced. The have already done the replacement of the watermain and the track west of Shaw and Shaw to Spadina is scheduled for 2026, when they have also scheduled the replacement of both watermain and track at the special track work at King/York. As we know, Church & King junction (watermain and track) is going on now. Last I heard, they will do the watermain and, I assume, the tangent tracks running east from Spadina, starting in 2027. Once the track and the water are done, they work on sidewalks and 'streetscape. Would it be better to do 'everything, now - probably but it is complex work involving two (or three) huge silos, - Toronto Water, Transportation and TTC.

 

[nightstreak]

As others have pointed out here, the reason given by the City for not (yet) rebuilding King is because there is one (or maybe two) large very old watermains on King and they need to be replaced. The have already done the replacement of the watermain and the track west of Shaw and Shaw to Spadina is scheduled for 2026, when they have also scheduled the replacement of both watermain and track at the special track work at King/York. As we know, Church & King junction (watermain and track) is going on now. Last I heard, they will do the watermain and, I assume, the tangent tracks running east from Spadina, starting in 2027. Once the track and the water are done, they work on sidewalks and 'streetscape. Would it be better to do 'everything, now - probably but it is complex work involving two (or three) huge silos, - Toronto Water, Transportation and TTC.

And as I have said repeatedly here, nobody is suggesting an entire King Street rebuild all at once, only rebuilding sidewalks that have been torn up, to their new configuration when they're already being rebuilt. This King/Church watermain project is being done now. When the street is rebuilt in this segment, then it should be rebuilt with the sidewalks in the current curb lane. This is literally the city's stated policy but they're not following it themselves.

via: https://www.toronto.ca/services-pay...tion-projects/king-street-pilot/public-realm/

 

[DSCToronto]

And as I have said repeatedly here, nobody is suggesting an entire King Street rebuild all at once, only rebuilding sidewalks that have been torn up, to their new configuration when they're already being rebuilt. This King/Church watermain project is being done now. When the street is rebuilt in this segment, then it should be rebuilt with the sidewalks in the current curb lane. This is literally the city's stated policy but they're not following it themselves.

View attachment 663031
via: https://www.toronto.ca/services-pay...tion-projects/king-street-pilot/public-realm/

If major work is planned that would involve tearing everything up (like watermain /track projects) the City and developers oten agree to 'put things back the way they were' and do the major work AFTER the destructive project is done. This is what happened with the Google building who have an obligation to rebuild Leader lane plus a block of Colborne Street. The building was finished 2 (?) years ago but then there was watermain and utility work. The developer-paid upgrade to Leader lane and Colborne is now scheduled for this fall (once King/Church is finished). Many of us here would complain if the new sidewalks etc were immediately dug up again and many of us complain that it all takes too long but ....

 

[Bojaxs]

After visiting Manchester and seeing the Trams in action in the City Centre, I've pretty much become a convert to the idea of turning King St. into a streetcar/ pedestrian priority street. I still think though that we have too many stops, and could afford to remove a couple in order to help speed up the streetcars.

 

[nightstreak]

After visiting Manchester and seeing the Trams in action in the City Centre, I've pretty much become a convert to the idea of turning King St. into a street car/ pedestrian priority street. I still think though that we have too many stops, and could afford to remove a couple in order to help speed up the streetcars.

Once you see it, it’s one of those “oooobviously!” things that are hard to unsee and take back. A street full of people frequenting businesses and a streetcar that ding dings across town as a convenient and reliable alternative to cars and gridlock is self explanatory once you see it.

The problem is that the city has spent a decade with a street that looks like crap, abandoned of both people and cars because it still has 4 lanes of traffic when only 2 should be there, and sidewalks are too narrow to activate with pedestrians.

The city is blowing its chance to convince enough people to make this political suicide to remove. What happened to the Summer activations on the curb lanes? CafeTO is also noticeably absent for most of the transitway because the cost has gone up from $0 during the pandemic to $900 after that and now $1900. Toronto can’t help but shoot itself in the foot.

 

[MisterF]

After visiting Manchester and seeing the Trams in action in the City Centre, I've pretty much become a convert to the idea of turning King St. into a streetcar/ pedestrian priority street. I still think though that we have too many stops, and could afford to remove a couple in order to help speed up the streetcars.

Looks like the surrounding streets that the trams run on are mostly car-free too.

 

[Bojaxs]

Looks like the surrounding streets that the trams run on are mostly car-free too.

iirc, they have city workers with special keys to lower the bollards surrounding the pedestrian zones. At which delivery vans for the local businesses (pubs, cafes,etc.) have until 11am to remove themselves from the pedestrian zones otherwise the delivery vans incur a fine.

Frankly what I've noticed is drivers in England appear to respect the trams more so than drivers here in Canada.

There are areas where there are no bollards, and it would be all to easy for an impatient driver to turn onto the tracks and drive into a pedestrian area. But then I suppose they wouldn't want to, because then their car would get stuck in a sea of people walking all around them.

I saw plenty of e-bikes riding directly on the tracks.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Frankly what I've noticed is drivers in England appear to respect the trams more so than drivers here in Canada.

Very generally speaking, UK drivers are far more polite, skilled and willing to respect traffic laws than those in Toronto.

AoD