[sixrings]

Yeah, I know a lot of people in the trades and other fields that "have to show up" they're very anti WFH then I point out imagine if you had less traffic to deal with and it still doesn't seem to change their minds.

I'm not asking for 2020 everyone's at home level, just mandate anyone who can do it 1 day a week, or throw in a tax break. I know many big downtown firms allow ~3 days a week at home, but it seems any company that owns their building or is in the suburbs believes in 5 days in person.

some people are just jealous that some people can still work from home. I work hybrid.

Anyways my dr still does one day from home.

And my wife’s company has the hardest time hiring anyone because people want to work from home exclusively versus her company 3 day in office 2 day home policy. The real problem is the most competent people resume wise want to work from home and the fresh out of school with no experience are likely to say yes to any job but it’s not who the company wants to hire.

 

[just east of the creek]

I was driving across the top of the Centre of the Universe earlier today, along the 401, and mulling over Doug’s latest vision of transportation brilliance - the tunnel. This vision may rank right up there with restricting nurses to a 1% wage increase per year, and we know how that moment of sheer brilliance worked out.

However, if we feel that a 401 ‘bypass’, with limited access only at the 410, 427, 409, 400, 404 and ? was a minimal requirement to keep the province functioning, then instead of tunneling…. How about twinning? Except for a few choke points, most of the 401 is lined by commercial, light industrial and low rise residential. Expropriate the lot, minimal interchanges (this is a bypass after all), and bridge or tunnel to squeeze by the one or two choke points

Yes, this would be a hideous scar running across and dividing the northern section of T.O., but it really only deepens the existing scar, and must be much, much cheaper to build and maintain then tunnelling, and take far less time ( assuming no Metrolinx involvement) to complete.

The Doug Ford Bypass. The legacy lives on.

And you could even consider a freight bypass for CPKC……how about that for value for your taxpayer dollar (goverment bonds ……like this: A USD 3.0 billion 5-year Global issue, due on January 15, 2030. The bond pays a 4.70% coupon (semi-annual) and an issue price of 99.912.)

 

[bearcat]

I was driving across the top of the Centre of the Universe earlier today, along the 401, and mulling over Doug’s latest vision of transportation brilliance - the tunnel. This vision may rank right up there with restricting nurses to a 1% wage increase per year, and we know how that moment of sheer brilliance worked out.

However, if we feel that a 401 ‘bypass’, with limited access only at the 410, 427, 409, 400, 404 and ? was a minimal requirement to keep the province functioning, then instead of tunneling…. How about twinning? Except for a few choke points, most of the 401 is lined by commercial, light industrial and low rise residential. Expropriate the lot, minimal interchanges (this is a bypass after all), and bridge or tunnel to squeeze by the one or two choke points

Yes, this would be a hideous scar running across and dividing the northern section of T.O., but it really only deepens the existing scar, and must be much, much cheaper to build and maintain then tunnelling, and take far less time ( assuming no Metrolinx involvement) to complete.

The Doug Ford Bypass. The legacy lives on.

And you could even consider a freight bypass for CPKC……how about that for value for your taxpayer dollar (goverment bonds ……like this: A USD 3.0 billion 5-year Global issue, due on January 15, 2030. The bond pays a 4.70% coupon (semi-annual) and an issue price of 99.912.)

Make the current express lanes "super express", the collectors "express" and add new 4 or 5 lanes wide collectors on each side. I think this is great!

 

[nfitz]

If they want to stop congestions, and perhaps even increase capacity, immediately - then just toll the express lanes.

 

[Bojaxs]

However, if we feel that a 401 ‘bypass’, with limited access only at the 410, 427, 409, 400, 404 and ? was a minimal requirement to keep the province functioning, then instead of tunneling…. How about twinning? Except for a few choke points, most of the 401 is lined by commercial, light industrial and low rise residential. Expropriate the lot, minimal interchanges (this is a bypass after all), and bridge or tunnel to squeeze by the one or two choke points

You understand a lot of those business purposely setup along the 401 so they have easier access to and from the highway? Before I got my job at CN I worked at a lot of the warehouses dotted along the 401 in Mississauga and Milton. You want to level all those business to twin a highway? That's a lot of jobs lost. Really bad idea. Where will all those warehouses go? A lot of the trucks I serve at CN are destined for those warehouses along the 401. Those businesses are part of the economic ecosystem created by the highway.

I want to believe that Doug Ford isn't actually serious about tunneling under the 401. Tunneling under the 401 seems like an option of "last resort" when there are so many other solutions to the problem.

1. Widening the 401 where it meets the 409 & 427 to have a collectors/ express setup. Even if it means tunneling this portion. This portion of the highway has to be one of biggest culprits for congestion on the 401. We need a continuous collectors/ express setup from western Mississauga all the way to Pickering.
2. Purchase the 407. Can't possibly be anymore expensive than tunneling under the 401.
3. Build freight rail bypasses and improve GO train operations on both the Milton and Kitchener line. A lot of traffic on the 401 has to be people driving from the Kitchener-Waterloo area to Toronto.

I would prefer to do a combination of all 3 rather than tunnel under the 401.

 

[just east of the creek]

If they want to stop congestions, and perhaps even increase capacity, immediately - then just toll the express lanes.

You understand a lot of those business purposely setup along the 401 so they have easier access to and from the highway? Before I got my job at CN I used to work at a lot of the warehouses dotted along the 401 in Mississauga and Milton. You want to level all those business to twin a highway? That's a lot of jobs lost. Really bad idea. Where will all those warehouses go? A lot of the truck I serve at CN are destined for those warehouses along the 401. Those business's are part of the economic ecosystem created by the highway.

I want to believe that Doug Ford isn't actually serious about tunneling under the 401. Tunneling under the 401 seems like a "last resort" option when there are so many other solutions to the problem.

1. Widening the 401 where it meets the 409 & 427 to have a collectors/ express setup. Even if it means tunneling this portion. This portion of the highway has to be one of biggest culprits for congestion on the 401.
2. Purchase the 407. Can't possibly be anymore expensive than tunneling under the 401.
3. Build freight train bypasses and improve GO train operations on both the Milton and Kitchener line. A lot of traffic on the 401 has to be people driving from the Kitchener-Waterloo area to Toronto.

I would prefer to do a combination of all 3 options rather than tunnel under the 401.

I do not disagree with anything you have said. I think there could be a myriad of integrated solutions to the stated problem. Not to mention changes in transportation technologies. And I was having a little fun as well.

Having said that, any widening or twinning of the 401 will require expropriation. And if so, it is not the end of the world. Expropriated properties are made good and the objective of the exercise is the greater good. Cities grow and change and buildings get levelled. I’m not sure we would be losing any standout landmarks, maybe Pinepoint Arena?

Also, regardless of the solution, or combination of solutions, then financing the cost will be immense. And it’s not current taxpayer dollars. It’s future taxpayer dollars, financed through bond offerings such as the one noted as an example. Future generations will be paying for those decisions.

 

[Bojaxs]

I do not disagree with anything you have said. I think there could be a myriad of integrated solutions to the stated problem. Not to mention changes in transportation technologies. And I was having a little fun as well.

Having said that, any widening or twinning of the 401 will require expropriation. And if so, it is not the end of the world. Expropriated properties are made good and the objective of the exercise is the greater good. Cities grow and change and buildings get levelled. I’m not sure we would be losing any standout landmarks, maybe Pinepoint Arena?

Also, regardless of the solution, or combination of solutions, then financing the cost will be immense. And it’s not current taxpayer dollars. It’s future taxpayer dollars, financed through bond offerings such as the one noted as an example. Future generations will be paying for those decisions.

I would argue the only thing more bogus than tunneling under the 401 is twinning the 401.

Also, I never said anything about losing "landmarks". I was referring to your idea of leveling business located along the 401.

 

[sixrings]

I hate highways BUT if there was 2 lanes express express with no exits from the 427-404 then that would make real cross city travel life changing. So if we had two collectors. Two express. Two express express it would help that. But everything else in between would be a nightmare.

We should just toll the entire thing 401/427/gardiner/dvp and use all of that tolling money to put directly into GO expansion and subway expansion.

 

[just east of the creek]

I would argue the only thing more bogus than tunneling under the 401 is twinning the 401.

Also, I never said anything about losing "landmarks". I was referring to your idea of leveling business located along the 401.

It would certainly introduce a 'Jersey' look to Toronto, a bit like the the I95 corridor around Newark (and hey, its tolled!)

 

[just east of the creek]

I hate highways BUT if there was 2 lanes express express with no exits from the 427-404 then that would make real cross city travel life changing. So if we had two collectors. Two express. Two express express it would help that. But everything else in between would be a nightmare.

We should just toll the entire thing 401/427/gardiner/dvp and use all of that tolling money to put directly into GO expansion and subway expansion.

I think there is a large % of UT forum members that agree with the general concept of tolling and there are a few differing ways of applying it.

But it’s not happening without a major change in policy from the current government. We can only hope.

 

[sixrings]

I think there is a large % of UT forum members that agree with the general concept of tolling and there are a few differing ways of applying it.

But it’s not happening without a major change in policy from the current government. We can only hope.

Everyone is scared of it. The conservatives and the liberals. So I’m skeptical of it happening. I do like it more than a congestion charge like in New York or London. It isn’t just downtown which has too many cars. It’s our entire city. We need to move away from car culture.

There was a moment where there was talk about how much the city would get for selling off the dvp and the Gardiner and then using that money to fund transit. But that’s a disaster. We will need transit expansion for the next 100 years. A one time payout will not fund that. And the private tolls will infuriate us more than the 407. Now everything is tolled and what happened to that one time payment. Didn’t go as far as we thought.

 

[afransen]

I think tolls are politically toxic in Ontario/GTA because of the 407 and its pricing policy of revenue optimization rather than socially optimal pricing. If toll rates were much lower off-peak/counter-peak, I think it would be less toxic. Similar to the NYC congestion charge which seems to be becoming more popular as it has been deployed. And even a relatively modest toll of $9 made a significant impact on congestion.

 

[sixrings]

I think tolls are politically toxic in Ontario/GTA because of the 407 and its pricing policy of revenue optimization rather than socially optimal pricing. If toll rates were much lower off-peak/counter-peak, I think it would be less toxic. Similar to the NYC congestion charge which seems to be becoming more popular as it has been deployed. And even a relatively modest toll of $9 made a significant impact on congestion.

The government needs to pass laws that help encourage transit. In some places if a company offers free parking (my wife and mine do - two seperate businesses) then if some one decides to take transit then that company has to pay their fares. We can’t just have sticks to discourage driving. We need carrots to encourage transit.

Also the PCs winning a majority tells you exactly what Ontario prioritized. Roads roads and more roads. They can’t announce tolls while the liberals who have been out of power for a while now will not be able to when they first get in. So it’s a looooong way off.

 

[lenaitch]

2 lanes express express with no exits from the 427-404

I suspect if you ever needed first responder assistance out there you would likely die of your injuries before anyone could get there and extract you.

 

[sixrings]

I suspect if you ever needed first responder assistance out there you would likely die of your injuries before anyone could get there and extract you.

Probably true. But f it all that matters is speed.