toaster29
Active Member
Technically CPP now owns about 44%, not a majority stake. PSP (which yes, is also public sector pensions) acquired 7.5%.
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
dowlingm
Senior Member
This isn’t Quebec, or Ireland. Public pension plans owning it doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want with it.
(To be clear this is a general point rather than specifically aimed at toaster29’s post)
afransen
Senior Member
I think the point is that 407 is paying "ourselves" in large part.
nfitz
Superstar
To go back the original poster - they referred to the dolts that own it. Whether one has the ability to do anything about things, it doesn't stop us being the dolts.
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Metroscapes
Active Member
All interesting and valid points. I'm siding with us being the dolts, because if we can't leverage majority pension plan-owned lands to improve transit, we can't build serious transit like a downtown subway relief line in Toronto that's layered with private property rights and utilities.
Hold up...
Allandale25
Senior Member
Ajax council pushing province to bring back express GO train service on Lakeshore East line
Ajax councillors want an update on when express GO train service will return to the Lakeshore East line. They passed a motion at a meeting last week asking t
www.durhamradionews.com
Allandale25
Senior Member
Signal issues and broken down train blocking the track on the Kitchener Line today. I think around Weston. A little surprised about the signal reference since I assume they are part of the GTS work and fairly new, but I guess anything can happen. I wonder if the broken train reflects the challenges of aging engines? Any insights @smallspy?
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Which of course raises the questions “Why would CN sell the Grimsby Sub?” and “How would CN’s trains travel from Toronto to Buffalo?”…
crs1026
Superstar
An obvious answer would be "The same way that CN gets to Guelph and Kitchener over a former CN line now owned by Metrolinx".
As to why - we would have to see the spreadsheet showing the annual fixed costs of the line which CN would pass to Ontario, versus what CN would pay to keep using the line..... plotted against the purchase price.
Net Present Value is your friend.
- Paul
Northern Light
Superstar
@crs1026 makes the point above............but we need to be clear here, CN has been open to selling Grimsby for years..........it is not core to their operations, and running rights are more than sufficient to serve their purposes here.
An Mx owned Grimsby gives them multiple positives.
1) A one-time injection of cash.....a decent number, nothing that will affect CN beyond a quarter, but a nice bump whether redeployed for capital, strategic purchases or a share buy-back.
2) A much better maintained line, with more freight capacity than it has today. The ultimate build-out here is fully restored twin track, including additional separations, better track classification (improved speed) and lets CN move everything it does today and more in the overnight hours.
On top of all that, it takes an aging asset in need of maintence off their capital books.
Win-Win-Win.
smallspy
Senior Member
Have they?
I like to think that I'm pretty well connected in the industry, and I have never once heard of CN entertaining the thought of selling the line outside of railfan speculation on forums like this.
It should be pointed out that they have been regularly investing in their fixed plant along the line as well, including recently wrapping up a multi-year program to rebuild the lift bridge over the Canal. If they were really so gung-ho on selling it, those are the exact types of costs that they would avoid if they could in order to pass them on to the future owners. They have certainly done exactly that in the past.
Dan
Northern Light
Superstar
Yes.
You are.
You missed one........ happens to the best of us. LOL
All of what you say makes perfect sense; however, I am aware of the conversation having happened before, some years ago. (2010s) and again more recently.
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crs1026
Superstar
There was a "demonstration run" a few years back (more than I may be recalling, but even so...) where CN ran an executive train along the line with a load of local politicians. This was widely reported as a sales pitch indicating CN's willingness to sell the line, and has been remembered ever since. (It may have been an attempt to secure funding, without considering sale, but the train run was more than CN usually expends on pure local goodwill absent an agenda).
Today's position at CN may be different....but....it's all about the purchase price. I'm sure CN realizes that the line is strategically located as a competitor to QEW and a logical GO extension. And looking at their own operation, we don't really know how rates are divided between CN and NS/CSX on the traffic interchanged at the border, or how many car-miles CN earns from that traffic. The traffic may be close to a losing proposition that CN can't shed but may not contribute much to fixed costs. It's not unreasonable to speculate that the line is a) expensive to run and b) not very remunerative, and if that's how CN sees it, there's a plausible connection. But a good theory is not proof.
You read my mind, sort of. I was about to post a comment about how we don't know where the line sits in CN's capital and life cycle programs. There is aging heavy infrastructure on the line (bridges, etc) that may need a lot of work. It may be a good time to have someone else pay for that work.
So, speculating about CN selling the line has face validity, even if we don't know the management position.
As usual, a big bag of money could change things.
- Paul
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Northern Light
Superstar
To be emphatic, CN's position IS that they are willing to sell.
The region has reported on this publicly, the presenter spoke to this at Council.
The only parts that are 'speculative' are the price, and whether the province will pony up.