[Northern Light]

I don't have access to freight schedules So I can't determine how much capacity would be needed at Bayview junction

There are definitely some folks here who have those details......perhaps they will be kind enough to share.

 

[reaperexpress]

There are definitely some folks here who have those details......perhaps they will be kind enough to share.

Even then I don't think my amateur spreadsheet timetables are detailed enough to draw conclusions for a complex junction, there are too many variables I don't know about the signalling system etc

 

[north-of-anything]

You seem to think the Hunter street tunnel is some sort of 10km long subway tunnel buried 50m below the surface. It's a 500m tunnel that is about 1.0m below the surface of Hunter Street. It was originally constructed using the open trench technique. Could easily be done again for less than the construction of all these Barrie and Stouffville line vanity project stations.

What vanity projects are we talking about here? Hamilton already has hourly service less than two kilometers away, and redoing the Hunter Street tunnel would not only disrupt GO operations but also CPKC operations, with a net gain of little to no new service. Meanwhile much of the Barrie and Stouffville lines have no off-peak service at all and feel like the Lakeshore lines (and Brampton, to a lesser extent) are the ones getting all the goodies.

I agree with being passionate about investing in your community, but claiming your locality deserves it the most and denigrating anything on other lines as pork-barrel projects won't garner any sympathy.

 

[TheHonestMaple]

What vanity projects are we talking about here? Hamilton already has hourly service less than two kilometers away, and redoing the Hunter Street tunnel would not only disrupt GO operations but also CPKC operations, with a net gain of little to no new service. Meanwhile much of the Barrie and Stouffville lines have no off-peak service at all and feel like the Lakeshore lines (and Brampton, to a lesser extent) are the ones getting all the goodies.

I agree with being passionate about investing in your community, but claiming your locality deserves it the most and denigrating anything on other lines as pork-barrel projects won't garner any sympathy.

Again, the Hamilton area has a population of around 800k. Bloomington GO station area has a population of nearly zero.

 

[drum118]

Aug 23
Stop off at Confederation Station on my way home and had a look at the station. The new parking area is ready for paving and working been done on the new station.

If this is to open in 2025, they need to step on work for the platform and melting system as the platform is far from being 50% built. There is no concrete to support any shelters plan for the station or the base for the snow melting system.

The platform south track needs a lot of grading to the west for the future track as well the north track that will see service in 2025 as well a switch cut into CN track 2.

Will be sometime before photos are on line.

 

[north-of-anything]

Again, the Hamilton area has a population of around 800k. Bloomington GO station area has a population of nearly zero.

Bloomington draws from Aurora, Oak Ridges, and everywhere along the 404. Bloomington also allows trains to enter revenue service earlier instead of reversing north of the Gormley Depot and then dead-heading to Gormley GO. The only thing wrong with that station is its sprawling layout. Every car intercepted at Bloomington is a car taken off the Don Valley Parkway.

Bloomington GO isn't even on the Barrie or Stouffville lines, it's on the Richmond Hill line.

 

[torontowest91]

Is lakeshore west not 15 minute trains yet? I am still seeing mimico to union every 30 minutes... frustrating

 

[Northern Light]

Again, the Hamilton area has a population of around 800k. Bloomington GO station area has a population of nearly zero.

You keep making broad stroke assertions and then you come back with singular examples. That's not a good way to construct an argument, assuming the goal is persuading others.

****

To whit, you're assertion that 'the area' has 800,000 is fine, but then you're including Burlington, which has Appleby, Burlington and Aldershot stations, all of which enjoy 2-way, all-day service of 30M.

You can't have it both ways, if you include Burlington to bolster your cause, you must include the stations and services it receives as well.

****

Lets come back to this, most people here are sympathetic to the idea of more service to Hamilton and Niagara, and a host of other places too. This is a very pro-transit forum.

But when you come out proverbial guns blazing........with "none of you should have any infrastructure or service until I get mine".......... you're not bringing people on board who might well be helpful to your cause.

****

One final note, Mississauga with 800,000+ people has one less GO Station that has 2-way, all-day service than Hamilton/Burlington.

 

[Northern Light]

Is lakeshore west not 15 minute trains yet? I am still seeing mimico to union every 30 minutes... frustrating

Lakeshore is every 30M on weekdays (both east and west)

Lakeshore is every 15M on weekends from Oakville to Oshawa, every 30m west of Oakville.

 

[WB62]

Lakeshore is every 15M on weekends from Oakville to Oshawa, every 30m west of Oakville.

Between 15:00-23:00, half hourly outside of that

 

[Chris R.]

You keep making broad stroke assertions and then you come back with singular examples. That's not a good way to construct an argument, assuming the goal is persuading others.

****

To whit, you're assertion that 'the area' has 800,000 is fine, but then you're including Burlington, which has Appleby, Burlington and Aldershot stations, all of which enjoy 2-way, all-day service of 30M.

You can't have it both ways, if you include Burlington to bolster your cause, you must include the stations and services it receives as well.

This is a very Toronto-centric point to make. In my opinion, you can have it both ways because Hamilton is a cultural and entertainment centre in its own right. So commenting that the Hamilton CMA deserves better Go transit service because of the 800,000 population is a sensible argument in my mind because as Hamilton grows and even in its current state people from Burlington at Appleby, Burlington and Aldershot will be taking the Go train toward Hamilton. I already know some people that do this to come to a workplace.

 

[crs1026]

Even then I don't think my amateur spreadsheet timetables are detailed enough to draw conclusions for a complex junction, there are too many variables I don't know about the signalling system etc

The numbers do not tell the whole story, either. At present there are only two through trains between Niagara and Aldershot, one each way..... but..... they are extremely long trains with DPU, and the switch configurations that they pass through limits them to 25 mph or less.... if, that is, the grade out of Hamilton doesn't hold them to an even lower speed.... and if the switches are lined in the two yards so they can clear the main track without having to stop. They tie up the full junction when they pass, because they must cross over all the way from one side of the main line (Hamilton) to the other (Aldershot).

Add to that 2-4 transfers each way between Aldershot and Hamilton, and to be optimistic, a dozen freights each way heading to/from Copetown. Plus one each way up the "Cowpath" from Hamilton to Copetown.

Nominally, there are three CPKC trains in each direction through the Desjardins junction.

CPKC and CN's interest will be not as much how many trains pass through today, as how many might pass through at some point in the future. And, they will want to conserve capacity so that these can pass at whatever time they need to. Few or no promises about keeping those routes clear all day long so passenger trains are not delayed. CP provides a window for the peak GO trains, but would be unlikely to extend that further.

Is there lots of idle capacity at present? Sort of. Can GO or VIA exploit that capacity? No. It belongs to the freight railways and they are conserving it for their own needs. After all, they paid to build it. A model might show the absolute amount of spare capacity, but its timing will vary from day to day....and in the daily operation VIA or GO can't afford to have their trains wait around for it.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

The numbers do not tell the whole story, either. At present there are only two through trains between Niagara and Aldershot, one each way..... but..... they are extremely long trains with DPU, and the switch configurations that they pass through limits them to 25 mph or less.... if, that is, the grade out of Hamilton doesn't hold them to an even lower speed.... and if the switches are lined in the two yards so they can clear the main track without having to stop. They tie up the full junction when they pass, because they must cross over all the way from one side of the main line (Hamilton) to the other (Aldershot).

Add to that 2-4 transfers each way between Aldershot and Hamilton, and to be optimistic, a dozen freights each way heading to/from Copetown. Plus one each way up the "Cowpath" from Hamilton to Copetown.

Nominally, there are three CPKC trains in each direction through the Desjardins junction.

CPKC and CN's interest will be not as much how many trains pass through today, as how many might pass through at some point in the future. And, they will want to conserve capacity so that these can pass at whatever time they need to. Few or no promises about keeping those routes clear all day long so passenger trains are not delayed. CP provides a window for the peak GO trains, but would be unlikely to extend that further.

Is there lots of idle capacity at present? Sort of. Can GO or VIA exploit that capacity? No. It belongs to the freight railways and they are conserving it for their own needs. After all, they paid to build it. A model might show the absolute amount of spare capacity, but its timing will vary from day to day....and in the daily operation VIA or GO can't afford to have their trains wait around for it.

- Paul

Good insights Paul.........

I will say, I've heard rumblings in the past of the Grimsby sub being for sale, presumably to Mx. Not sure how serious those were/are........but I think CN is probably open to exiting here in favour of track access rights, though may well also consider some type of shared/enhanced corridor.

That certainly leaves plenty of other issues in/around the junctions.

 

[TheHonestMaple]

I don't think Chris R or myself are suggesting what you're saying at all. We're just saying that Hamilton, a city of 800k, appears to be completely forgotten by Metrolinx with respect to the GO Transit network. The service level just doesn't match the demand, and it's strange and quite frustrating as two downtown Hamilton residents.

 

[Chris R.]

You're using Toronto-centric here is a form of bashing, and that's what I'm criticizing. I'm pro expanding transit to Hamilton, but to the extent I have influence you and @TheHonestMaple have me thinking about seeing if can nix it instead.

All I have done here is correct over-reach and erroneous statements. I've done so politely, while indicating I support the very projects you and Maple would like. But that doesn't stop you and he from going after me and others again and again.

I don't know where people get the idea that if you're asking for support the best way to achieve that is throwing Molotov cocktails.......... may I suggest, you're wrong.

"Mississauga and Brampton" aren't real cities is not a legitimate argument, its inflammatory. Incorrect statements about service levels are simply incorrect. Incorrect descriptions about investments are just that, incorrect.

That doesn't mean I and others don't support more service to Hamilton, it means we support making the case with evidence, rather than an erect middle finger pointed at everyone not from the Hamilton area.

At this point I will leave this conversation and decline further discussion, as I'm finding this more than a little off-putting, as the next thing I type might be a tad intemperate.

With all due respect. I've been trying to provide legitimate arguments for why Hamilton should be prioritized after decades of being ignored by the larger transit discussion.

And again, with all due respect because I want to be clear that I do appreciate your input and the input of others on this forum is respectful discussion, but I don't know who you think you are that you'll have any impact on transit investment in Hamilton, and saying you're planning to do all you can to stop investment in Hamilton because of two dudes on a forum is immature and amateurish. So much so that I think you should rescind the comment.