[mossynukes]

If there is a subway between Kennedy and Brimley - with stops at both of those locations - why is there also a need for a paralleling LRT as well?

That is what the suggestion is here. Keep the Crosstown to west of Kennedy Station, and the Eglinton East/Malvern line west of Brimley. Between the two could be the subway..

Dan

The issue with this is that it adds an unnecessary transfer. When line 5 opens, someone travelling from Markham and Eglinton to Midtown will take the bus to Kennedy station, and transfer to the LRT; one transfer, just as it is today. If they rebuilt Kennedy Station and planned to extend Line 5 LRT to UTSC, this person would get on the LRT and have one ride until their destination, eliminating today's transfer and reducing travel time. With what is being suggested, this person would have to take the EELRT to Brimley, then ride one stop on Line 2 to get to Kennedy, and then Transfer yet again to get on Line 5? All to stay on Eglinton?

 

[mossynukes]

Line5 will never extend. They claim it’s now impossible due to GO and SSE expansions. City wants to build an LRT station in the arena parking lot instead

If it really is impossible, then I think permanent bus lanes and BRT (Lite) along the Eglinton East corridor is the answer. I do not support an infill station if it means pushing Eglinton East buses or the EELRT (if it does get built) east to Brimley because of the very common trip and ones like it that I highlighted above.

 

[Aplus23]

Yes.

Then they definitely should've added another stop at brimley, real short-sightedness or cheapness

 

[bearcat]

The issue with this is that it adds an unnecessary transfer. When line 5 opens, someone travelling from Markham and Eglinton to Midtown will take the bus to Kennedy station, and transfer to the LRT; one transfer, just as it is today. If they rebuilt Kennedy Station and planned to extend Line 5 LRT to UTSC, this person would get on the LRT and have one ride until their destination, eliminating today's transfer and reducing travel time. With what is being suggested, this person would have to take the EELRT to Brimley, then ride one stop on Line 2 to get to Kennedy, and then Transfer yet again to get on Line 5? All to stay on Eglinton?

Well depending on how slow the LRT is between Brimley and Kennedy along Eglinton, and how quick the LRT to subway to LRT transfers would be it might actually not be slower overall despite there being two as opposed to one transfer.

The speed of the LRT would be determined by how many intermediate stops there would be between Brimley and Kennedy and what sort of transit priority is implemented.

There is no question it's annoying to have to have an extra transfer, but it won't be necessarily slower.

 

[Steve X]

Well depending on how slow the LRT is between Brimley and Kennedy along Eglinton, and how quick the LRT to subway to LRT transfers would be it might actually not be slower overall despite there being two as opposed to one transfer.

The speed of the LRT would be determined by how many intermediate stops there would be between Brimley and Kennedy and what sort of transit priority is implemented.

There is no question it's annoying to have to have an extra transfer, but it won't be necessarily slower.

In this city, new subway stations will be very deep. Would take up to 5 minutes to get from the platform to the LRT stop.

LRTs are design as urban development transit lines (glorified streetcars) with denser stopping distance designed for development and short trips.

We are not going to see a Calgary suburb C-Train design here. It simply doesn't fit in the urban planner's agenda. So you can pretty much make your assumptions base on these facts.

 

[smallspy]

The issue with this is that it adds an unnecessary transfer. When line 5 opens, someone travelling from Markham and Eglinton to Midtown will take the bus to Kennedy station, and transfer to the LRT; one transfer, just as it is today. If they rebuilt Kennedy Station and planned to extend Line 5 LRT to UTSC, this person would get on the LRT and have one ride until their destination, eliminating today's transfer and reducing travel time. With what is being suggested, this person would have to take the EELRT to Brimley, then ride one stop on Line 2 to get to Kennedy, and then Transfer yet again to get on Line 5? All to stay on Eglinton?

The number of people who are making that transfer today is not nearly as high as you think it is. I've done that transfer quite a few times, and in just about every case I was the only one.

That's why The Crosstown was never projected to continue east in any version of the line - the ridership numbers and flows never made sense for it to so.

Dan

 

[Rainforest]

^ There is one more connection that will be disfavoured if the Eg East LRT terminates at Brimley. The one from Eg East LRT to the Stouffville GO line, both south and towards Markham.

Not sure how big of a deal is that. But in theory, as the GO frequency improves, more people will be using it for trips that include a local part within the 416, and not just to downtown.

 

[Rainforest]

The fastest connection from the Kennedy station to UofT Scarborough, is going to be: subway to STC, then express bus to the campus.

In order to serve the area along Eglinton East and Kingston Rd; if the LRT is no longer desirable, then perhaps a BRT is an option. That route already has a kind of BRT Lite, the RedTO lanes. Those could be replaced with a continuous, street-median BRT.

BRT won't be faster than LRT, but it will have a few other advantages:

1. No need for a new terminal at Kennedy; BRT buses can use the same terminal as other buses. Thus, the transfers will be simpler.

2. BRT supports branches. The Eg East route operates several branches of the #86, 116, 905, 986 today, and can continue as several branches if converted to BRT.

3. BRT is cheaper; the savings could pay for the construction of the infill Brimpley subway station, and/or another BRT on Ellesmere.

The drawback is capacity. If the projected demand on Eglinton East is so high that it cannot be handled by buses, even the artic ones - then, LRT it required.

 

[nfitz]

The fastest connection from the Kennedy station to UofT Scarborough, is going to be: subway to STC, then express bus to the campus.

Off peak perhaps. But I'd have thought Line 7 from McCowan station would be faster. Unless someone wants to build a BRT.

 

[Rainforest]

Off peak perhaps. But I'd have thought Line 7 from McCowan station would be faster. Unless someone wants to build a BRT.

That's possible, too. We won't know the exact speed/travel time on Line 7, until it is in operation.

But I believe the rule of thumb is that express mixed-traffic bus is roughly equivalent to LRT (the bus has fewer stops, the LRT has fewer obstacles). If so, then the trip that involves the Ellesmere express should be a bit faster because the distance is shorter (not going north to Sheppard before backtracking south almost to Ellesmere).

 

[nfitz]

That's possible, too. We won't know the exact speed/travel time on Line 7, until it is in operation.

But I believe the rule of thumb is that express mixed-traffic bus is roughly equivalent to LRT (the bus has fewer stops, the LRT has fewer obstacles). If so, then the trip that involves the Ellesmere express should be a bit faster because the distance is shorter (not going north to Sheppard before backtracking south almost to Ellesmere).

That assumes that riders to UTSC are coming from Line 2; which I doubt given that it goes directly (and probably faster) to the main campus downtown.

I'd have thought a lot of UTSC students would be coming from north of the 401. Likely along Line 4 to get to McCowan station.

I don't see changing at McCowan station to Line 2 for one stop would be popular. Though I suppose they could extend the express bus from Scarborough Centre station to McCowan station to ease transfers. Given how deep these new stations are, those aren't quick transfers.

 

[Coolibop]

^ There is one more connection that will be disfavoured if the Eg East LRT terminates at Brimley. The one from Eg East LRT to the Stouffville GO line... south...

Are you forgetting about Eglinton GO?

 

[Northern Light]

Are you forgetting about Eglinton GO?

For the South/Downtown link, would make sense.

He did also mention the connection to Markham mind you.

I'm not sure what the numbers show, but I don't imagine that as being a particularly big demand from the EELRT route, to go westward to go northward to Markham, which, in any event would still be a feasible, just with one more transfer.

 

[Rainforest]

That assumes that riders to UTSC are coming from Line 2; which I doubt given that it goes directly (and probably faster) to the main campus downtown.

I'd have thought a lot of UTSC students would be coming from north of the 401. Likely along Line 4 to get to McCowan station.

I don't see changing at McCowan station to Line 2 for one stop would be popular. Though I suppose they could extend the express bus from Scarborough Centre station to McCowan station to ease transfers. Given how deep these new stations are, those aren't quick transfers.

From the north of the 401 - definitely Line 7, or the express bus along Sheppard before Line 7 comes to existense.

My original point was: anyone who wants to travel between the Kennedy Stn and UTSC, will likely take Line 2 north, and then a shorter surface route (doesn't even matter if that's along Ellesmere or Sheppard). Rather than taking the surface Eg East route from the Kennedy Stn all the way to the campus.

Therefore, the design of Eglinton East - Kingston Rd route should be primarily motivated by serving the areas in-between.

 

[smallspy]

^ There is one more connection that will be disfavoured if the Eg East LRT terminates at Brimley. The one from Eg East LRT to the Stouffville GO line, both south and towards Markham.

Not sure how big of a deal is that. But in theory, as the GO frequency improves, more people will be using it for trips that include a local part within the 416, and not just to downtown.

This is absolutely true, and does make for a strong case to extend the LRT all the way to Kennedy.

But I fear that the reality of limited funds available for construction will have to win out in this case.

Dan