[degrandprix]

"Downtown Toronto to Nisku Truckstop" really does capture the story of this site perfectly.

I hope the developer goes back to the drawing board, and if not EDC and Council better tear this one to shreds from a design standpoint.

I don't know if I have much faith in EDC based off their comments on the Westrich parking lot at the BMO site..

 

[TAS]

New student housing in Montreal for comparison.

.https://www.instagram.com/p/DUD3f-AjDH4/?igsh=MTRlOXczeTlpMmRwZw==

 

[AntonK]

It annoys me that Edmonton has to wear this. The architectural firm is from Toronto and the developer isn't local either. Speaks volumes about their quality of design and developments.

A lot of this is dollars and cents unfortunately. The more expensive the housing the better the designs usually end up. That’s why Calgary gets better stuff than Edmonton and Vancouver gets better stuff than Calgary.

When rents and housing prices are competitive with places like Saskatoon we’ll get Saskatoon type developments.
On one hand Edmonton’s affordability is an advantage, but in other ways not.

 

[Barnaby]

Most of the design choices are poor architectural decisions rather than purely cost savings. I see alot of these new builds with overcomplicated designs on the exteriors.

@archited gets alot of crap on here, but he's right about how poor the architecture is. Look at the difference between the two wings of Westrich's West Garneau. Why they didn't just replicate the East side?.. Who knows.

 

[AntonK]

Most of the design choices are poor architectural decisions rather than purely cost savings. I see alot of these new builds with overcomplicated designs on the exteriors.

@archited gets alot of crap on here, but he's right about how poor the architecture is. Look at the difference between to two wings of Westrich's West Garneau. Why they didn't just replicate the East side?.. Who knows.

It’s both cost and design choices. I’m noticing that so many of our 6 storey wood frame buildings are crap, in particular so much cheap paneling. Calgary gets those also, but not as much, and Vancouver never gets that kind of stuff.
Aside from material costs, it’s also the types of buildings. Calgarys downtown builds are almost all concrete highrises. Vancouver’s the same but with better materials. You never see buildings like this proposed in those downtowns.
It’s gotta be because people paying paying more expect more.

 

[archited]

It’s gotta be because people paying paying more expect more.

If one doesn't have the choice, expectation doesn't even enter into the decision. Good Architecture is not governed by cost to the extent that you might expect. Edmonton developers can do a lot better.

 

[IanO]

It’s both cost and design choices. I’m noticing that so many of our 6 storey wood frame buildings are crap, in particular so much cheap paneling. Calgary gets those also, but not as much, and Vancouver never gets that kind of stuff.
Aside from material costs, it’s also the types of buildings. Calgarys downtown builds are almost all concrete highrises. Vancouver’s the same but with better materials. You never see buildings like this proposed in those downtowns.
It’s gotta be because people paying paying more expect more.

'Vancouver never gets that kind of stuff.' Huh???

Vancouver has a ton of 4-6 storey stuff, but when you are achieving $4.5-5 rents (vs $2.50-3.05) and or $700-1000/sqft (vs $300-350), you tend to be able to have a lot more latitude with specs, finishes and design.

 

[David A]

We really do need higher standards for our downtown because of the profile and visibility of buildings here. This sort of development will drag down the area, not improve it.

 

[Ohman]

It’s both cost and design choices. I’m noticing that so many of our 6 storey wood frame buildings are crap, in particular so much cheap paneling. Calgary gets those also, but not as much, and Vancouver never gets that kind of stuff.
Aside from material costs, it’s also the types of buildings. Calgarys downtown builds are almost all concrete highrises. Vancouver’s the same but with better materials. You never see buildings like this proposed in those downtowns.
It’s gotta be because people paying paying more expect more.

Winnipeg actually gets interesting and often spectacular projects in their downtown and i don't think their economics are better than ours. I think Edmonton is really an anomaly in the country with the kind of proposals and projects that it tends to pass as acceptable. I won't paint all developers here with that brush because some do great city building, but they tend to be the exception. We have a huge abundance of the bad kind and it's really unfortunate.

 

[David A]

Winnipeg actually gets interesting and often spectacular projects in their downtown and i don't think their economics are better than ours. I think Edmonton is really an anomaly in the country with the kind of proposals and projects that it tends to pass as acceptable. I won't paint all developers here with that brush because some do great city building, but they tend to be the exception. We have a huge abundance of the bad kind and it's really unfortunate.

I feel the abundance of bad here may be causing even more of a race for the bottom now, as some that were better before here now seem to also be putting forward things that are not as good.

I don't know how we reverse this perhaps naming and shaming them more and putting more pressure on the city not to approve crap, particularly for prominent sites downtown, could help.

 

[AntonK]

'Vancouver never gets that kind of stuff.' Huh???

Vancouver has a ton of 4-6 storey stuff, but when you are achieving $4.5-5 rents (vs $2.50-3.05) and or $700-1000/sqft (vs $300-350), you tend to be able to have a lot more latitude with specs, finishes and design.

I meant Vancouver (city proper) never gets the 4-6 storey buildings that are crap with materials like cheap paneling.
They know how to do low rise, but my point and yours is that people paying twice as much expect better.

 

[ADob]

Sure, but we pay what we pay here because that's what the market's like. They pay what they pay there for the same reason. Each of us should be able to expect a decent product at whatever price our particular market can bear.

 

[IanO]

I meant Vancouver (city proper) never gets the 4-6 storey buildings that are crap with materials like cheap paneling.
They know how to do low rise, but my point and yours is that people paying twice as much expect better.

Don't fool yourself. They have plenty of 4-6 wood/wood-concrete examples and certainly some use Hardie or other architectural panels.

Commercial has a bunch, Arbutus area, W4th, more further south too.

 

[AntonK]

Don't fool yourself. They have plenty of 4-6 wood/wood-concrete examples and certainly some use Hardie or other architectural panels.

Commercial has a bunch, Arbutus area, W4th, more further south too. for Commercial or W4th I can’t think of even one example of a new build that’s like

Vancouver has lots of older buildings with Hardy board/siding reclads, but very few if any new buildings that are like the one in this thread, and definitely not on streets like commercial or W-4th.
I don’t have any issue with wood builds in general, but rather the exterior materials used in many of our inner city builds.

 

[constance_chlore]

Most of the design choices are poor architectural decisions rather than purely cost savings. I see alot of these new builds with overcomplicated designs on the exteriors.

@archited gets alot of crap on here, but he's right about how poor the architecture is. Look at the difference between the two wings of Westrich's West Garneau. Why they didn't just replicate the East side?.. Who knows.

This is what kills me. There are so many buildings where removing weird patches of color or other bizarre half-assed ornamentation would instantly improve a building (by making it bland rather than ugly). I realize that the economics are a factor, but I think a lot of developers active in Edmonton also just have poor taste.