[Northern Light]

The St Lawrence Market is a very different context than Bloor West Village.

While Bloor West Village is an urban format walkable main street, the majority of customers drive to the retail area.

Generally I am a fan of taking street parking off of arterial roads, particularly downtown where few to no people are driving for short errands and most people in cars are making "longer" trips, but a retail strip like Bloor West Village does actually have a lot of short vehicle trips. There are of course massive Green P lots to the north for people to park, but removal of on-street parking in the area would likely impact businesses which rely on short-stop shoppers.

It may not actually be that large of an impact - and is worth studying, but I think complete dismissal of the concern from businesses isn't appropriate (like it absolutely is for Market Street, where those business concerns are outright ridiculous).

Hmmm, absent concrete evidence, its difficult to say..........but...

I had a look at the Sept '22 Streetview which shows CafeTO occupying a chunk of the parking on pre-cycle track Bloor (in Bloor West Village)

Across the Runnymede to Jane segment, I get about 60 cars parked on street.

Now, during this time, the Green P lots north of Bloor do have empty spots, but are quite busy:

But there is some absorption capacity:

A total removal of parking would inordinately disadvantage the south side of the street. But that might be mitigated with a single, well-placed, green P lot on that side, ideally underground under a new development or alternatively on the side street to the south.

 

[evandyk]

Its simpler than that.
For them and most businesses. they drive in to their business, so they assume everyone else does too

When they put the bike lanes in the Annex, they did some surveys. I forgot the exact data, but something like 50%+ of business owners drive to their businesses there, while less than 10% of customers drive to the businesses. But of course when surveyed, the business owners think that 50%+ of their customers drive.

 

[evandyk]

The people who have Ford's ear are actually Kingsway people, not BWV.

 

[ownthesky]

Ok, so you're asking about the bridge part specifically, got'cha.

The curb lane is ~4.9M which should allow 1.4M of space to be repurposed. The existing sidewalk is ~1.5M. That gives you' 2.9M

The inner lane is ~3.4M, you can probably shave another 0.2 off that.

That gives enough for a trail/sidewalk, but without a barrier.

It would be a very tight squeeze to add one.

The bridge has a seam down the middle, two discrete decks, so, unfortunately, you can't shift space from the up direction to the down without a very big project.

But a raised, 3M path should be viable w/o ripping everything up. I say that w/o knowing where they've run the utilities or the exact engineering.....but I think is a solid....'guess'.



Parts of the Bruce are gorgeous.

View attachment 636360

This one (below) is from Hamilton:

View attachment 636362

Just closing the loop on our previous conversation - I heard back from the city of Hamilton Re: Jolly Cut cycling access and that missing gap along Arkledun. It's definitely on their radar, they mentioned that they're looking at some capital funding to revamp the infrastructure in that gap and it sounds like they want to time it with a road improvement project.

Semi-related, went for a long ride yesterday from Hamilton to Mapleview and the cycling infrastructure in Burlington has really improved quite a bit along York and Plains Road. There's still a few awful sections (ex the freeway ramps) and a small gap where all the cycling infrastructure disappears entirely, but Burlington talked big talk about being a cycling friendly city and it's nice to see them put their money where their mouth is, at least from the Royal Botanical Gardens to Aldershot (where everything disappears).

 

[chinesehorse]

From Liam Casey with the Canadian Press: Ontario open to compromise with Toronto on removal of three bike lanes

"Toronto's proposal includes returning two car lanes to University Avenue near the city's hospital row, narrowing the bike lanes and removing on-street parking, said a source familiar with the plan."

 

[generalcanada]

From Liam Casey with the Canadian Press: Ontario open to compromise with Toronto on removal of three bike lanes

"Toronto's proposal includes returning two car lanes to University Avenue near the city's hospital row, narrowing the bike lanes and removing on-street parking, said a source familiar with the plan."

Still dont understand the obsession over on-street parking. Even my buddy whos totally against bike lanes doesnt understand why we have it on streets like queen

 

[Natika33]

Still dont understand the obsession over on-street parking. Even my buddy whos totally against bike lanes doesnt understand why we have it on streets like queen

In spots, (such as at the corner of University), the sidewalks on Queen are dangerously narrow, too. I see people walk on the outer side of the subway entrances and onto the street all the time.

Removing parking to expand the sidewalk would be one potential improvement. However, my preferred option would be to close Queen from car traffic from the parking lot at city hall all the way west to Bathurst, and only allow bikes, streetcars, and pedestrians through during business hours.

 

[evandyk]

From Liam Casey with the Canadian Press: Ontario open to compromise with Toronto on removal of three bike lanes

"Toronto's proposal includes returning two car lanes to University Avenue near the city's hospital row, narrowing the bike lanes and removing on-street parking, said a source familiar with the plan."

LOL

“Where both a reinstated car lane and a bike lane can exist, we are open to collaboration with the City of Toronto, provided they fund their portion of their identified infrastructure needs,” Brasier said.

The City did fund its portion of its identified infrastructure needs. The province is the party that wants extra now, it can pay.

 

[bearcat]

Still dont understand the obsession over on-street parking. Even my buddy whos totally against bike lanes doesnt understand why we have it on streets like queen

I agree with with you. I think 100% of street with streetcars should have no on street parking. For one, just look at what happened this winter with streetcars being blocked by parked cars.

I do think in front of the hospitals on University it makes sense to have some parking and loading zones. Though if removing the parking is the only way to keep bike lanes in university, I am all for it. People can be dropped off on Murray Street.

Of course the province needs to pay for any construction.

Speaking of University, had anyone actually complained about the bike lanes there? Like some Bloor West businesses have been making a lot of noise, filing a lawsuit, etc. I've seen some people complain on-line about the bike lanes on Yonge. In both of those situations car lanes are reduce to one through lane in each direction, and I can kind of get the complaining from people who drive. But University is still two lanes at least in each direction. I have driven on it since the new bike lanes and never felt slowed down by them.

 

[evandyk]

Speaking of University, had anyone actually complained about the bike lanes there? Like some Bloor West businesses have been making a lot of noise, filing a lawsuit, etc. I've seen some people complain on-line about the bike lanes on Yonge. In both of those situations car lanes are reduce to one through lane in each direction, and I can kind of get the complaining from people who drive. But University is still two lanes at least in each direction. I have driven on it since the new bike lanes and never felt slowed down by them.

Flavio Volpe constantly complains about them.

 

[bearcat]

Flavio Volpe constantly complains about them.

I had to look up who this is. Google says he is "internationally recognized champion of Canada's automotive industry". He is the president of Canada's Automotive Parts Manufacturing Association. Sounds like he has may have a vested interest in people driving instead of cycling lmao.

 

[Northern Light]

While I agree with the general thrust above about removing street parking.........

I would point out.........loading zones really are necessary, particularly where a rear-laneway system is absent, but even otherwise for everything from movers to dropping off those with mobility challenges.

While such zones need not be in every block, they do likely prevent replacing a parking lane with a full additional free-flowing lane for vehicles in both directions.

 

[Voltz]

peaking of University, had anyone actually complained about the bike lanes there? Like some Bloor West businesses have been making a lot of noise, filing a lawsuit, etc. I've seen some people complain on-line about the bike lanes on Yonge. In both of those situations car lanes are reduce to one through lane in each direction, and I can kind of get the complaining from people who drive. But University is still two lanes at least in each direction. I have driven on it since the new bike lanes and never felt slowed down by them.

I know someone who claims that the bike lanes on University have caused surgeries to be cancelled.

My head hurt after hearing that.

 

[Natika33]

While I agree with the general thrust above about removing street parking.........

I would point out.........loading zones really are necessary, particularly where a rear-laneway system is absent, but even otherwise for everything from movers to dropping off those with mobility challenges.

While such zones need not be in every block, they do likely prevent replacing a parking lane with a full additional free-flowing lane for vehicles in both directions.

Does anyone know how loading zones, mobility challenges, etc are handled in places where the street is pedestrianized such as parts of St. Catherine in Montréal?

 

[Northern Light]

Does anyone know how loading zones, mobility challenges, etc are handled in places where the street is pedestrianized such as parts of St. Catherine in Montréal?

On behalf of 'anyone'......... LOL, yes.

1) The street is not fully pedestrianized, there is at least one through lane on most blocks. There is a loading zone (15m time limit) between Mansfield and Peel.

2) Here's a pic of one section:

Three, that's not my pic...........but you can find the source info for it and see more pics, where I first posted it, over in the Yonge St. revitalization thread:

Yonge Street Revitalization (Downtown Yonge BIA/City of Toronto)

YongeTOmmorrow is about as half-assed as you can get. It was designed by and for cars with box checked for sidewalks. Yonge should be completely pedestrianized from Bloor to King with 6AM to 10AM allowed for delivery trucks and none on the weekends. Every other city on the planet manages to...

urbantoronto.ca

Or pop over to the source directly for even more pics:

Sainte-Catherine Ouest Project

Discover the redevelopment project of Rue Sainte-Catherine Ouest: A one-of-a-kind pedestrian experience downtown!

montreal.ca

From the above, you can also see a schematic diagram showing the loading zone (pink) and through lanes for cars (arrows)