[micheal_can]

What headways are we talking here? are we only looking at other countries HSR and going by their frequency?

I am just extrapolating of what existing frequency is with Via between the cities already and then just thinking about early and later usage too. I am thinking no worse than once an hour, but no more than once every 15 minutes. I am thinking the first trains into Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa in the morning will be around 7am. I am also thinking the last trains will leave in time for those watching a game can catch it and get home, so around 11pm/midnight.

 

[micheal_can]

If you want to go into Union Station (and you absolutely should, as we’ve discussed ad nausea!), then it will be difficult to operate more than 2tph. If you need more capacity, you’d double the trains (e.g., coupling two 8-car trainsets together) before you really considering more departures. We are absolutely not going to see anything like Japanese or Chinese train frequencies, as our metropolitan areas are much smaller (and often further apart)…

Interestingly,this is where the Midtown Corridor could be useful. Once HSR ON West is built, send some through it to continue on and bypass Union. But that won't be planned out, or even thought of for a decade.

 

[generalcanada]

I am just extrapolating of what existing frequency is with Via between the cities already and then just thinking about early and later usage too. I am thinking no worse than once an hour, but no more than once every 15 minutes. I am thinking the first trains into Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa in the morning will be around 7am. I am also thinking the last trains will leave in time for those watching a game can catch it and get home, so around 11pm/midnight.

15 minute service would be too much i think

 

[bearcat]

If you want to go into Union Station (and you absolutely should, as we’ve discussed ad nausea!), then it will be difficult to operate more than 2tph. If you need more capacity, you’d double the trains (e.g., coupling two 8-car trainsets together) before you really considering more departures. We are absolutely not going to see anything like Japanese or Chinese train frequencies, as our metropolitan areas are much smaller (and often further apart)…

What is the specific constraint to operating more than two trains per hour (not that I think it's needed)?
Is it the expectation that dedicated HSR tracks won't extend to Union and the HSR trains will need to share track with GO? Is it platform arrangement at Union? Is it the the time needed to deboard, clean and reboard the train?

 

[micheal_can]

15 minute service would be too much i think

For most of the day, I agree. However, depending on how successful it becomes, there may be parts of the day that it does leave that often. The other thing to consider is what kind of population growth this will cause. And what kind of population growth will happen before it even opens. There will be a couple hours of a gap overnight, but during the day at certain times, it may act as a commuter service.

 

[Urban Sky]

What is the specific constraint to operating more than two trains per hour (not that I think it's needed)?
Is it the expectation that dedicated HSR tracks won't extend to Union and the HSR trains will need to share track with GO? Is it platform arrangement at Union? Is it the the time needed to deboard, clean and reboard the train?

Whether you share tracks or platforms with GO/RER, every intercity train you operate is at least one train less they can operate. Even if ALTO trains should be much more on-time than VIA trains today, I would still assume that they would (at least when heading towards Union) be inserted ad-hoc (rather than with a dedicated slot), slightly delaying the following trains until the headway buffers stabilize the timetable. I could be wrong, but I suspect that if you go more frequently than twice per hour, too many suburban/regional trains will be affected.

Or maybe a different example: If you actually schedule the intercity trains, you would define a slot every 15 minutes (because all other trains operate every 15 minutes or multiples of that). If you operate the intercity trains every 30 or 60 minutes, you always have a free slot 15 minutes later, which you can use if you arrive late. If you operate more frequently than that, you would no longer have that luxury…

 

[micheal_can]

Whether you share tracks or platforms with GO/RER, every intercity train you operate is at least one train less they can operate. Even if ALTO trains should be much more on-time than VIA trains today, I would still assume that they would (at least when heading towards Union) be inserted ad-hoc (rather than with a dedicated slot), slightly delaying the following trains until the headway buffers stabilize the timetable. I could be wrong, but I suspect that if you go more frequently than twice per hour, too many suburban/regional trains will be affected.

Or maybe a different example: If you actually schedule the intercity trains, you would define a slot every 15 minutes (because all other trains operate every 15 minutes or multiples of that). If you operate the intercity trains every 30 or 60 minutes, you always have a free slot 15 minutes later, which you can use if you arrive late. If you operate more frequently than that, you would no longer have that luxury…

Is there a way to dedicate a set of tracks and platforms that no other trains can use going in and out of Union?

 

[bearcat]

Whether you share tracks or platforms with GO/RER, every intercity train you operate is at least one train less they can operate. Even if ALTO trains should be much more on-time than VIA trains today, I would still assume that they would (at least when heading towards Union) be inserted ad-hoc (rather than with a dedicated slot), slightly delaying the following trains until the headway buffers stabilize the timetable. I could be wrong, but I suspect that if you go more frequently than twice per hour, too many suburban/regional trains will be affected…

So you don't think it's within the realm of possibility that HSR trains would have dedicated platforms and track all the way into and within Union? Presumably such an arrangement would be too expensive?

Something like the two northernmost tracks within Union and along the USRC east being dedicated to HSR all the way until the curve North at the Don. If that's of course the route HSR takes. The Richmond Hill GO train honestly IMHO can just be cancelled once the Yonge subway is extended North.

What uses those tracks now at Union? I assume some GO services stope there? The Canadian?

As far as I understand all the GO tracks and platforms will be rejigged with the platform widening, which would need work in the USRC to be done on the approaches to Union. Can dedicated platforms for HSR not be squeezed in?

Yes if HSR's approach to Union will be via the LSE tracks then it will need to share tracks and likely platforms with GO. Do you have some insight into this being the preferred route?

 

[Voltz]

With Union, at least please work in plans or provisions into the upcoming platform rejigging to have high floor platforms for VIA and ALTO, it felt like I had stepped into the modern era when I got off a VIA train at a level platform in Montreal for the first time.

 

[generalcanada]

Onexpress will be changing the platforms and heights. that should get started in a few years.

 

[bearcat]

Onexpress will be changing the platforms and heights. that should get started in a few years.

Right, but the hope if that it will be done with possible Alto service in mind, and not in such a way as to make Alto service actually harder to implement in the future.

 

[nfitz]

With Union, at least please work in plans or provisions into the upcoming platform rejigging to have high floor platforms for VIA and ALTO, it felt like I had stepped into the modern era when I got off a VIA train at a level platform in Montreal for the first time.

I haven't taken a train into Montreal since Covid. How have they changed the dungeon-like dimly-lit warrens that they call platforms? (though the photos I've seen of the modernized REM platforms look good - but I was unaware they were also working on the intercity platforms).

 

[generalcanada]

Right, but the hope if that it will be done with possible Alto service in mind, and not in such a way as to make Alto service actually harder to implement in the future.

head on over to the platform height thread then. Its not hard. platform heights are standard. As long as arent buying some custom thing like we did with the UP trains.

Same the other way around, you dont need some special HSR height.

 

[bearcat]

head on over to the platform height thread then. Its not hard. platform heights are standard. As long as arent buying some custom thing like we did with the UP trains.

Same the other way around, you dont need some special HSR height.

I am not talking about platform heights, but about the track and platform arrangement as well as stairs and elevator access to allow optimize Alto arriving and departing with minimal impact on GO service and vice versa.

But speaking of platform heights.

And from that thread it looks like GO is choosing 610 mm as the level boarding height, which is different already than the level boarding height for current VIA trains.

Is 610 mm a worldwide standard? Do you have a link for that? Does anyone except GO uses that standard?

 

[generalcanada]

I am not talking about platform heights, but about the track and platform arrangement as well as stairs and elevator access to allow optimize Alto arriving and departing with minimal impact on GO service and vice versa.

But speaking of platform heights.

And from that thread it looks like GO is choosing 610 mm as the level boarding height, which is different already than the level boarding height for current VIA trains.

Is 610 mm a worldwide standard? Do you have a link for that? Does anyone except GO uses that standard?

Union will be rebuilt with much wider platforms and stairwells. if it can handle standing room only traffic flows down those stairwells it can handle a HSR train.

As for the heights ill correct myself. every country and city has their own platform heights. but with Go trains they choose the height its not hard for Alto to stick and build with it in mind