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StreetcarRider said:
"Quebec would withdraw from high-speed rail project if PQ forms next government, party leader says"
More detailed coverage in French:
ici.radio-canada.ca

Le PQ retirerait le Québec du projet de TGV

Le projet fédéral Alto, actuellement en développement, promet des stations dans quatre villes du Québec et une réduction significative des temps de transports.
ici.radio-canada.ca ici.radio-canada.ca
Click to expand...

Spoke to a couple of friends in Montreal and Quebec. It's no surprise Plamondon is coming out with this nonsense at this time.

PQ is currently in an extremely tight race with PLQ and CAQ. Both PLQ and CAQ have basically soared in polls and wiped out the comfortable lead that PQ commanded at the beginning of the year (sounds familiar? 😂）. There's also a historically low appetite for referendum and sovreignty in Quebec right now (with 25% of Quebecois polled who want to see a referendum).

1781023727727.png

What's more, PQ has very little to lose by opposing Alto. They have no jurisdiciton in a federal interprovincial project, from a legal standpoint.
But more importantly, PQ's core constituents have shifted over the past decade. They've lost a lot of ground in Montreal, Quebec, Laval and other urban centres, and have become a predominantly suburban >> rural party, very much like BQ (no surprise that BQ came out on the same day to oppose Alto). Hence, they really have nothing to lose here, because PLQ, CAQ, and a small QS will capture those urban voters.
 
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StreetcarRider said:
"Quebec would withdraw from high-speed rail project if PQ forms next government, party leader says"


More detailed coverage in French:

ici.radio-canada.ca

Le PQ retirerait le Québec du projet de TGV

Le projet fédéral Alto, actuellement en développement, promet des stations dans quatre villes du Québec et une réduction significative des temps de transports.
ici.radio-canada.ca ici.radio-canada.ca
Click to expand...
Tabarnak! Yet another reason to ensure PQ leader Plamondon does not become Premier!
 
micheal_can said:
.... does this make the C-E project all of a sudden more likely than ALTO?.

If Quebec really does pull out, maybe till their next election, the focus turns towards the hardest section T-O. That may delay the opening of the sections in Quebec, but it might be a better thing such that they all open at the same time.
Click to expand...
No. There is nothing to “withdraw” from so to speak, other than the unofficial support from the province, since the provinces are not actually involved in the Alto project.

The only thing along that line that I could see the government doing is trying to force CDPQi to sell their stake in Cadence, but that would damage the independence of La Caisse and have significant collateral and reputational damage for Quebec.
 
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ericmacm said:
Th

No. There is nothing to “withdraw” from so to speak, other than the unofficial support from the province, since the provinces are not actually involved in the Alto project.

The only thing along that line that I could see the government doing is trying to force CDPQi to sell their stake in Cadence, but that would damage the independence of La Caisse and have significant collateral and reputational damage for Quebec.
Click to expand...
Not to mention the the open question of whether PQ even can form a majority government the next provincial legislature, given the strong momentum of CAQ and LPQ. Whatever Plamondon is shouting right now is essentially worthless and should be taken with a bucket of salt.
 
micheal_can said:
.... does this make the C-E project all of a sudden more likely than ALTO?.

If Quebec really does pull out, maybe till their next election, the focus turns towards the hardest section T-O. That may delay the opening of the sections in Quebec, but it might be a better thing such that they all open at the same time.
Click to expand...
No. This is entirely a federal government project. Quebec can't pull out of a project that it was never in.
 
ericmacm said:
Th

No. There is nothing to “withdraw” from so to speak, other than the unofficial support from the province, since the provinces are not actually involved in the Alto project.

The only thing along that line that I could see the government doing is trying to force CDPQi to sell their stake in Cadence, but that would damage the independence of La Caisse and have significant collateral and reputational damage for Quebec.
Click to expand...
So, this is just posturing?

Good to hear...
 
StreetcarRider said:
"Canada’s first high-speed rail project dies if Quebec pulls out, Carney minister says"

Click to expand...
Your quote is misleading. That quote was not saying that if Quebec voices opposition the Fed's will cancel alto.

here is what comes directly before and after:
Asked if the proposal to build a 1,000-kilometre rail line from Toronto to Quebec City could proceed without the approval of the Quebec government, MacKinnon told reporters, “Let’s be clear, there is no Alto project without Quebec.”
His office later said MacKinnon was referring to the centrality of the rail line’s route through Quebec, and not the possible opposition of the provincial government.
Click to expand...

Then the article mentions Plamondon's statement:
Taking to social media, Plamondon called the proposal a “fiasco” that the province cannot afford, and said money from Quebec taxpayers would be better spent on schools, hospitals and other infrastructure in Quebec.“
Click to expand...
I know this position will not necessarily be popular,” Plamondon wrote in French. “But as leader of a political party that aspires to form a responsible government, I cannot condone this waste to the detriment of vital projects for the population.”
Click to expand...

Quebec as far as we know has not financial inputs into the project.

The article asked Alto about this:
In an interview with the Star, the head of the federal Crown corporation in charge of the project stressed that neither Ontario nor Quebec would be on the hook for its costs.
Alto CEO Martin Imbleau said the train line would be funded by Ottawa and a conglomerate of Canadian and French companies that includes the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, Air Canada and AtkinsRéalis.
Click to expand...

Alto's CEO reiterates and underlines this by saying clearly:
“There is no provincial participation in Alto or any aspect of the project.”
Click to expand...

This means Plamondon is lying about saving Quebec taxpayers. But headline readers will not know that.
This feels like Republican style politization against a rail line. It's gross.
 
SFO-YYZ said:
Spoke to a couple of friends in Montreal and Quebec. It's no surprise Plamondon is coming out with this nonsense at this time.

PQ is currently in an extremely tight race with PLQ and CAQ. Both PLQ and CAQ have basically soared in polls and wiped out the comfortable lead that PQ commanded at the beginning of the year (sounds familiar? 😂）. There's also a historically low appetite for referendum and sovreignty in Quebec right now (with 25% of Quebecois polled who want to see a referendum).

View attachment 743007
What's more, PQ has very little to lose by opposing Alto. They have no jurisdiciton in a federal interprovincial project, from a legal standpoint.
But more importantly, PQ's core constituents have shifted over the past decade. They've lost a lot of ground in Montreal, Quebec, Laval and other urban centres, and have become a predominantly suburban >> rural party, very much like BQ (no surprise that BQ came out on the same day to oppose Alto). Hence, they really have nothing to lose here, because PLQ, CAQ, and a small QS will capture those urban voters.
Click to expand...
But this polling is also somewhat deceptive: this is a case where First Past The Post really screws things up.

The Quebec Liberals are in a position where they're winning > 70% of the vote in Gatineau and parts of Montreal, and completely uncompetitive in most other parts of the province. Conversely, while I'm sure the PQ would rather be higher in the polls than they are, on present polling they're actually in a position to win a majority government, since much of the rest of the province is in close 2- and 3-way races, and they're coming out on top in a lot of them. If an election were held tomorrow, a large number of districts across Quebec will elect their MNAs on vote totals below 40%, with some probably coming in under 30%. This is is an affront to democracy, and it's what FPTP is designed to do.
 
Against the estimates of Alto costing CAD $60-90 billion, and Alberta's big plan costing CAD $60 billion, Germany is planning to spend Euro 100 billion on what amounts to a renovation:

"Germany’s €100bn bid to make the trains run on time: The country’s railway renewal is the first test of whether Europe’s largest economy can reverse years of decline"

 
Does anyone have any polling on how popular Alto really is among the non urbantransit posting crowd? (my suspicion is low)
 
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