[SFO-YYZ]

Having it as an election platform issue is always the most dangerous part. Lets just hope public support for the current and pro hsr parties dont wane

Most of this is just provincial politics background noise, in an election year.

Legally, everyone including the PQ and CAQ know that Quebec cannot simply veto or "pull out" of an interprovincial railway project the way a province could withdraw from a jointly funded provincial-federal program, because there's no legal basis for them to challenge this:

• Interprovincial railways fall under federal jurisdiction under section 92(10) of the Constitution Act 1867.
• Ottawa has historically had authority to authorize, regulate, and expropriate land for railways that cross provincial boundaries.

So if ALTO remains a federally authorized (and in this case, funded) transportation project from Toronto to Québec City, a Quebec government could not simply pass a law saying "the railway is banned in Quebec" and expect that to prevail against federal legislation. No legal grounds for such a challenge and they know it.

On the expropriations front, a Quebec of Ontario land owner could probably **delay** ALTO and increase compensation costs, but a CAHSR-style decades-long land-rights fight in court is quite unlikely, even under current legal framekwork in Canada, because Canadian property rights protections are much weaker than that of the U.S. (which is written into Fifth Amendment of the constitution). Ottawa is also seeking to pass the current Bill C-15, which if passed, will give Ottawa even more legal instruments to expedite the project (e.g. right-of-first-refusal and prohibition-on-work notices on land along the corridor; simply the procedural steps of the Expropriations Act; eliminate public hearings for expropriation challenges, and replace with a written objection, etc.).

 

[cplchanb]

Most of this is just provincial politics background noise, in an election year.

Legally, everyone including the PQ and CAQ know that Quebec cannot simply veto or "pull out" of an interprovincial railway project the way a province could withdraw from a jointly funded provincial-federal program, because there's no legal basis for them to challenge this:

• Interprovincial railways fall under federal jurisdiction under section 92(10) of the Constitution Act 1867.
• Ottawa has historically had authority to authorize, regulate, and expropriate land for railways that cross provincial boundaries.

So if ALTO remains a federally authorized (and in this case, funded) transportation project from Toronto to Québec City, a Quebec government could not simply pass a law saying "the railway is banned in Quebec" and expect that to prevail against federal legislation. No legal grounds for such a challenge and they know it.

On the expropriations front, a Quebec of Ontario land owner could probably **delay** ALTO and increase compensation costs, but a CAHSR-style decades-long land-rights fight in court is quite unlikely, even under current legal framekwork in Canada, because Canadian property rights protections are much weaker than that of the U.S. (which is written into Fifth Amendment of the constitution). Ottawa is also seeking to pass the current Bill C-15, which if passed, will give Ottawa even more legal instruments to expedite the project (e.g. right-of-first-refusal and prohibition-on-work notices on land along the corridor; simply the procedural steps of the Expropriations Act; eliminate public hearings for expropriation challenges, and replace with a written objection, etc.).

Have you ever watched inception? All it takes is an idea to be planted and over time that will grow into something. Look at our neighbour's down south. Maga started as an idea from 1 crooked orange humpty dumpty and look where they are now.

Thats why I keep on pressing that these fringe politics and lobbyists need to be quashed out Immediately before they can plant an idea seed on someone who can make a difference

 

[Thaboss]

Ottawa is also seeking to pass the current Bill C-15, which if passed

Agree with everything you said. Just a small correction. Bill c-15 has already passed

Legislation passes to implement Budget 2025: Canada Strong - Canada.ca

Today, Bill C-15, the Budget Implementation Act, 2025, No. 1, received Royal Assent. This key piece of legislation will help the government deliver on its plan to build one united economy, empower Canadians to get ahead, and protect our country and sovereignty — today, and for generations to come.

www.canada.ca

 

[Bojaxs]

I don't care if Quebec pulls out. We can then focus on an Ontario InterCity line from Ottawa - Windsor.

Quebec's lost is Ontario's gain.

 

[micheal_can]

I don't care if Quebec pulls out. We can then focus on an Ontario InterCity line from Ottawa - Windsor.

Quebec's lost is Ontario's gain.

If Quebec backs out, we should just focus on the Toronto - Ottawa leg. Then when the PQ are voted out, we do the other legs, of which would be relatively easy to do.

 

[McGillicuddy]

I don't care if Quebec pulls out. We can then focus on an Ontario InterCity line from Ottawa - Windsor.

Quebec's lost is Ontario's gain.

Other way 'round.

The business case for HSR to Quebec City is actually pretty weak: most demand for this service will be concentrated within the existing corridor triangle, with Quebec City a secondary destination that may only command a limited service. One compelling reason for including Quebec City is to shore up the line's political prospects. (We're connecting the regions of Quebec, we're doing nation-building, and we're specifically making it difficult for a future Conservative government to scuttle the project, since their road to a majority always runs through Quebec City.)

Cutting out Montreal and Quebec City, and running it to Windsor instead, would make the business case substantially worse, and doesn't offer the same political advantages. No doubt the voters of London and Windsor would take an interest, but so would the voters of the province of Quebec, who would now find their tax dollars spent on a train that won't serve them, either. (And it's best you don't ask the voters of Saskatchewan how they feel about either version of this project...)

 

[micheal_can]

Other way 'round.

The business case for HSR to Quebec City is actually pretty weak: most demand for this service will be concentrated within the existing corridor triangle, with Quebec City a secondary destination that may only command a limited service. One compelling reason for including Quebec City is to shore up the line's political prospects. (We're connecting the regions of Quebec, we're doing nation-building, and we're specifically making it difficult for a future Conservative government to scuttle the project, since their road to a majority always runs through Quebec City.)

Flipping it around and connecting to Windsor instead makes the business case substantially worse, and doesn't offer the same political advantages. No doubt the voters of London and Windsor would take an interest, but so would the voters of the province of Quebec, who would now find their tax dollars spent on a train that won't serve them, either. (And it's best you don't ask the voters of Saskatchewan how they feel about either version of this project...)

Toronto -Ottawa - Montreal really is the only true viable section of High speed and High frequency rail within Ontario and Quebec. The rest are natural extensions that would help, but on their own would not be needed.

 

[MisterF]

Toronto -Ottawa - Montreal really is the only true viable section of High speed and High frequency rail within Ontario and Quebec. The rest are natural extensions that would help, but on their own would not be needed.

I'd say the line to Kitchener and maybe London would be viable as well. Once Metrolinx builds its own tracks on the section between Bramalea and Georgetown they'll be able to run high frequencies to Kitchener. I think it's conceivable that upgrading the line to higher speeds at some point would be viable.

As for London, it's smaller than Quebec City but the distance is also significantly shorter (roughly 80 km from Kitchener). And the terrain is mostly flat.

 

[nfitz]

Yeah, I figure you'd build high speed to London, and then let some trains run on regular (relatively decent alignment much of it owned by VIA) into Windsor. Over time one could look at small incremental upgrades and/or grade separations to run faster.

 

[micheal_can]

I'd say the line to Kitchener and maybe London would be viable as well. Once Metrolinx builds its own tracks on the section between Bramalea and Georgetown they'll be able to run high frequencies to Kitchener. I think it's conceivable that upgrading the line to higher speeds at some point would be viable.

As for London, it's smaller than Quebec City but the distance is also significantly shorter (roughly 80 km from Kitchener). And the terrain is mostly flat.

I am speaking of 15 minute frequency for most of the day, every day. Yes, there is a viability west of Toronto, but, just like East of Montreal, if it were the only thing built, it would never reach its potential. the T-O-M spine alone can reach the potential we all dream of. Having said that, W-QC makes sense for high speed, high frequency passenger service.