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Garceyues said:
Now you’ve ironically committed a strawman - I was pointing out your hasty generalization that parks are ostensibly unsafe after dark. Now you are misrepresenting my argument by stating that I was referring to operation hours, when I explicitly was referring to park safety in that sentence. See the quote in question:



Parks having operating hours does not necessarily make it evidence based policy that reduces crime or increases public safety as you are insinuating. Anyways, you have a propensity to take threads off topic with safety issues or politics, so I’m going to end this conversation here before things get any more off topic. I look forward to enjoying this park during the evening, operating hours permitting.
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If Edmonton City Council decides to impose operating hours on Warehouse Park it will be out of a concern for crime and not some teens playing basketball in the evening. Your personal experiences with parks in Montreal will mean less to council than they do on this thread.
 
Out of Towner said:
If Edmonton City Council decides to impose operating hours on Warehouse Park it will be out of a concern for crime and not some teens playing basketball in the evening. Your personal experiences with parks in Montreal will mean less to council than they do on this thread.
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Personally, I think this way of thinking is exactly why downtown Edmonton is in the situation it’s in. You and many others here believe that adding operational hours will improve safety, while both I and the person you’re responding to have pointed out that if the park feels safe, people will actually use it at night.

Instead of acknowledging that a park can be used after hours if safety is prioritized, your focus has been on dismissing our lived experiences. I moved to Edmonton from Montreal, and the key difference I see is how city council addresses crime and police presence. If council introduces a curfew (operational hours), it won’t truly be about crime it will be about creating the appearance of action while in reality doing very little.

Lol I am sure having operational hours will send the right message to investors and builders
 
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HelpEd said:
Personally, I think this way of thinking is exactly why downtown Edmonton is in the situation it’s in. You and many others here believe that adding operational hours will improve safety, while both I and the person you’re responding to have pointed out that if the park feels safe, people will actually use it at night.

Instead of acknowledging that a park can be used after hours if safety is prioritized, your focus has been on dismissing our lived experiences. I moved to Edmonton from Montreal, and the key difference I see is how city council addresses crime and police presence. If council introduces a curfew (operational hours), it won’t truly be about crime it will be about creating the appearance of action while in reality doing very little.

Lol I am sure having operational hours will send the right message to investors and builders
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My position is not that Warehouse Park should have 24/7 operating hours. Parks are designed for day use. They're not intended to be a hang out for people at night. Central Park in NYC has operating hours and it's not sending an adverse message to investors and builders there - that I've ever heard reported. I'm more inclined to believe that investors and builders welcome environments that are safe and free of crime. Council has an obligation to defend public safety and it will take a holistic view on establishing operating hours is what is likely to happen. There's a possibility that you'll be unable to enter the park after dark and that you'll just have to live with it.
 
Out of Towner said:
My position is not that Warehouse Park should have 24/7 operating hours. Parks are designed for day use. They're not intended to be a hang out for people at night. Central Park in NYC has operating hours and it's not sending an adverse message to investors and builders there - that I've ever heard reported. I'm more inclined to believe that investors and builders welcome environments that are safe and free of crime. Council has an obligation to defend public safety and it will take a holistic view on establishing operating hours is what is likely to happen. There's a possibility that you'll be unable to enter the park after dark and that you'll just have to live with it.
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NYC and Edmonton aren’t even comparable! One is arguably the economic engine of the richest country on earth, while the other is still a city trying to establish itself. Doing something like this in New York doesn’t matter because there’s wealth and the perception of prestige but here it would have a very different impact on perception. I can’t believe I even have to point that out.

Like I said, council has a million other options if they actually wanted to act. Helping the vulnerable, providing adequate services, and ensuring a real police presence would make a huge difference. But sure, just changing operating hours and then ignoring the problem is also an option, just don’t expect alot of retail businesses or families to move downtown under those conditions.
 
The other obvious fact is that Warehouse/O-day'min Park is nothing at all like Central Park. I don't know how much time you've spent in Central Park, but it's enormous and large parts of it feel like walking in the woods. the Warehouse Park is much closer in function to something like Washington Square Park, which has no operating hours.
 
HelpEd said:
NYC and Edmonton aren’t even comparable! One is arguably the economic engine of the richest country on earth, while the other is still a city trying to establish itself. Doing something like this in New York doesn’t matter because there’s wealth and the perception of prestige but here it would have a very different impact on perception. I can’t believe I even have to point that out.

Like I said, council has a million other options if they actually wanted to act. Helping the vulnerable, providing adequate services, and ensuring a real police presence would make a huge difference. But sure, just changing operating hours and then ignoring the problem is also an option, just don’t expect alot of retail businesses or families to move downtown under those conditions.
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Night economies do generate GDP as you have alluded and 24/7 economies are beneficial and pursued by some jurisdictions. However, I don't think that is one of the goals for Warehouse Park. The number of activities restricted by closing the park at night can't be that many or that important.
 
My experiences in the Philippines where its dark by 6:00 pm all the time, is if things are well lit and the is passive but active programming then it will be busy and accessible. I think if the Pavillion here has different formal and informal activites that will help lots. Some street vendors into the evening will also help. If surrounding businesses especially restaurant are open into the evening that will all help keep more eyes on the street.
 
constance_chlore said:
The other obvious fact is that Warehouse/O-day'min Park is nothing at all like Central Park. I don't know how much time you've spent in Central Park, but it's enormous and large parts of it feel like walking in the woods. the Warehouse Park is much closer in function to something like Washington Square Park, which has no operating hours.
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Did you hang out at Washington Square Park in the middle of the night? Be honest now.
 
Edmcowboy11 said:
My experiences in the Philippines where its dark by 6:00 pm all the time, is if things are well lit and the is passive but active programming then it will be busy and accessible. I think if the Pavillion here has different formal and informal activites that will help lots. Some street vendors into the evening will also help. If surrounding businesses especially restaurant are open into the evening that will all help keep more eyes on the street.
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I can see that happening but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about people hanging out at the park outside of scheduled activities hours because because.
 
Out of Towner said:
Did you hang out at Washington Square Park in the middle of the night? Be honest now.
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Washington Square Park is essentially the quad for NYU so it is a common student area; Gramercy Park was ornately fenced in and probably had restrictions for use. The High Line has accessibility hours; Central Park is open at all hours but it is not wise to plan a romp through the park in the wee hours.
 
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TAS said:
View attachment 675629View attachment 675630
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What is up with the city's love for mulch landscaping? This is brand new, and it already looks a bit unsightly. If you look at the boulevards and planters (a number of which have been posted on here), all it takes is a year or two of neglect and they're overrun with weeds, garbage, and dead foliage. Surely there has to be better options, no?
 
johnnyboy said:
What is up with the city's love for mulch landscaping? This is brand new, and it already looks a bit unsightly. If you look at the boulevards and planters (a number of which have been posted on here), all it takes is a year or two of neglect and they're overrun with weeds, garbage, and dead foliage. Surely there has to be better options, no?
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Agreed. But I believe the City uses mulch very frequently because they produce their own mulch, and because it actually helps cover up a lot of the maintenance neglect issues by acting as a decent weed barrier. However, in good theory, this of all parks in north-central Edmonton should be the one that doesn't suffer from lack of maintenance.
 
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