ShonTron
Moderator
Sorry, I was just wondering what the point is of having “FTN Tier 1” if they’re just entirely existing Viva routes. Bayview, Jane and Major Mack should at the very least be included too.
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Sorry, I was just wondering what the point is of having “FTN Tier 1” if they’re just entirely existing Viva routes. Bayview, Jane and Major Mack should at the very least be included too.
chrisw
Active Member
Naming wise FTN Tier 2 is a bit better than FTN (Base) which they used before. Maybe it suggests they're open to considering some routes Tier 1 in the future.
doady
Senior Member
YRT could think about how to make the transfer between Purple and Orange easier, but they could also think about why even have Orange in the first place. Why cut back the successful Purple to York U in favour of the massive failure Orange? Why build these expensive Rapidways but not have Purple go west of Yonge like route 16 does?
I have said it before, York Region Transit would have much higher ridership today if not for Viva. Despite population growth, the transit ridership of York Region Transit has not grown since 2013 and it's all because of Viva. Even from the beginning, in 2005, Viva was already a White Elephant, yet even today they still continue to double down and pour even more resources into it at the expense of basic transit service. Instead of Orange west of VMC and duplicating 501 Zum, they could use those buses to provide all day service along Bur Oak Avenue, for example.
YRT need to get the basic transit service right before they think about more BRT and a Frequent Transit Network. 15 minute service was not enough to get people to use Viva Green, and it will not be enough to reverse the system's decline today. Build a system for actual riders, not hypothetical riders. York Region spent more money on transit than the rest of the GTA and all it has done is made them fall further and further behind.
I have said it before, York Region Transit would have much higher ridership today if not for Viva. Despite population growth, the transit ridership of York Region Transit has not grown since 2013 and it's all because of Viva. Even from the beginning, in 2005, Viva was already a White Elephant, yet even today they still continue to double down and pour even more resources into it at the expense of basic transit service. Instead of Orange west of VMC and duplicating 501 Zum, they could use those buses to provide all day service along Bur Oak Avenue, for example.
YRT need to get the basic transit service right before they think about more BRT and a Frequent Transit Network. 15 minute service was not enough to get people to use Viva Green, and it will not be enough to reverse the system's decline today. Build a system for actual riders, not hypothetical riders. York Region spent more money on transit than the rest of the GTA and all it has done is made them fall further and further behind.
drum118
Superstar
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Sauga89
Active Member
Why is the southern end of the study at Hwy 7? Wouldn't it make more sense to extend the study area south to Steeles to meet the northern end of the Jane RapidTO corridor? Also, what happens if YRT decides on centre lane dedicated bus lanes for Jane, and RapidTO sticks with the proposed dedicated bus lanes next to the sidewalk? Wouldn't that make it harder to connect the two sections in the future?
May 2025
Join us for Open House #1
JANE STREET BUS RAPID TRANSIT | City of Vaughan
York Region Rapid Transit Corporation (YRRTC) is conducting a Jane Street Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) study from Highway 7 to Major Mackenzie Drive in Vaughan.
The York Region 2022 Transportation Master Plan identified the need for rapid transit infrastructure along the Jane Street corridor to support planned housing and job growth. This project will provide faster connections to major destinations and existing rapid transit, reduce traffic congestion and support more jobs and increased housing supply.
When:
Thursday, May 22, 2025
Drop-in anytime from 5:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
Where:
David Braley Vaughan Metropolitan Centre of Community, Main Lobby
200 Apple Mill Rd., Vaughan, L4K 5Z5
Please email yrrtc@york.ca if you require any accommodation to participate.
Your feedback matters!
Members of the public, agencies, Indigenous Nations and other interested persons are encouraged to share feedback by attending engagement opportunities or by contacting YRRTC staff with comments or questions.
If you have any questions, would like to provide input or would like to be added to the mailing list, please contact us: Phone: 905-505-1430 | Email: yrrtc@york.ca
Can’t attend?
Visit yrrtc.ca/jane_brt to view information about the study and the proposed improvements.
chrisw
Active Member
Recently was at Finch Station at the afternoon peak. Lots of lineups for the express buses. Using the 407 is going to speed things up compared to local routes. And there's still benefits to create that ridership for off peak times. Express routes seem to be a big beneficiary of OneFare, though it could've been busy before even when you had to pay a separate fare with a 407 premium.
chrisw
Active Member
On Viva Orange, for 2026 they're planning to convert the fleet to 60ft buses and increasing rush hour frequency due to growing ridership.
I think focusing on the Frequent Transit Network is a good thing. It's quite broad and not just VIVA. Getting it up to a minimum standard.
ARG1
Senior Member
That's because York University kicked them out. When the TYSSE opened in 2017, York U decided that "The subway is enough, we don't need busses here anymore, people can transfer from the busses at other stations". Henceforth, no more 501C, no more TTC busses, and no more Viva Purple. To say that decision was controversial is... an understatement. That being said having a separate Viva Purple and Orange is a bit silly. Maybe you could argue operational efficiency and making it easier to make up lost time from delays (but let's be honest, its so that YRT can have different headways and cause chaos).
ShonTron
Moderator
Because it’s York Region. If they go south of Highway 7, they will have to deal with the 407 overpass and the CN underpass. They cheaped out before (see the ridiculous signalized shoo-fly under Highway 404) and avoided building the median busway under the Newmarket Sub and 407 in Concord.
And don’t get me started with the bottleneck at Highway 7 and Islington.
Sandpit
Active Member
IMO the thinking is a far simpler "There's already a subway there".
anb
Active Member
501C actually lasted for well over 7 years past the opening of the TYSSE, the decision to stop the service to York U came from a mix of the one fare program and the fact that the 407 tolls were costing a lot for BT to handle.
Pretty sure I have said this before, but they should have left the Viva Purple to go all the way to VMC while either extending Viva Orange to The Gore/Hwy 50, or to divert and head down to Humber College via either of those roads, or to cut the service altogether and let the 501 handle the rest.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
I agree, but acknowledge that it would be a tough sell. VMC was/is supposed to be the big draw here (Yes there's the Langstaff Gateway project that seems to have the same or similar aspirations as VMC) both as an origin/destination centre and as a multi modal hub. Richmond Hill centre gets preferential treatment now because that's where most of the density is. In the future maybe that flips.
doady
Senior Member
A lot of that ridership on Orange is from Purple which is why they should have cancelled Orange and kept Purple to VMC. Brampton Transit already provides the service west of VMC. With a unified route from Vaughan to Markham, no transfers, the ridership would be even higher. That's kind of whole point of York Region Transit after all.
Frequency of 30 minutes vs. 15 minutes is only an average 7.5 minutes reduction in waiting time. You can reduce waiting time along 16th and Major Mackenzie by 7.5 minutes or you add a route along Bur Oak so people there don't have to walk 15 minutes to the bus stop. The leader of New Urbanism in Canada, where the planners had the foresight to build a continuous 10km thoroughfare for transit, lined with medium and high density, a GO station, a hospital, and THREE high schools, YRT should take advantage of it.
Look at route 16, a 21km long route that has 56 minute run time during rush hour, and compare that with route 42 Derry in Mississauga: 22.5km long, 74 minute run time. If my maths are correct, that is 22.5km/h vs. 18.2 km/h. To travel 15 km on 42 Derry, riders would have to spend 9 extra minutes compared to YRT route 16, which cancels out the 9 minutes lower wait time. When the ridership is very low, the buses will be very fast, and you don't need high frequencies when the buses are that fast.
chrisw
Active Member
Looking at transee, there's decent spike of people using orange from VMC to Jane, Keele, Dufferin. Though there's still usage West of VMC.
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ARG1
Senior Member
Worth noting that west of VMC Viva Orange is duplicated by the 501 Zum, which serves the same stations along the route. As such I'm not surprised to see transee saying that east of VMC is somehow busier.