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McMahon can have the exact same funding stack. Nothing prevents the feds, or the city or CSEC contributing money to it.
If I'm the city, if I'm funding anything at McMahon, I want ownership in that you get to control what happens with the area around the stadium.

In the Livewire article Farkas mentions there needing to be recreational opportunities for them to fund anything whether at McMahon or GMC Stadium. Also, the Stampede CEO talking about maintaining the track throughout the year under a playing surface seems a bit delusional. They were able to rebuild the track pretty quickly after the flood, I'm sure they can build a proper track for the Stampede without needing to maintain one year-round. Those field tray systems in Europe the CEO mentions would be prohibitively expensive.
 
If I'm the city, if I'm funding anything at McMahon, I want ownership in that you get to control what happens with the area around the stadium.
What would the city accomplish with this control? The university will eventually build it up when the market is ready.

In the Livewire article Farkas mentions there needing to be recreational opportunities for them to fund anything whether at McMahon or GMC Stadium.
Yeah, a bubble I'd bet. A minimal cost thing to have some extra public benefit.

Those field tray systems in Europe the CEO mentions would be prohibitively expensive.
Would they be? Compared to a 2016 minimal renovation cost for McMahon at $90 million?
 
Having a football stadium on the grounds would still not solve the biggest problem with McMahon, no concerts. I'd rather they just massively renovate McMahon and have a full bowl stadium that can have concerts. Also, imagine the traffic in the area on one of the days there is a football and a hockey game at the same time!
 
What would the city accomplish with this control? The university will eventually build it up when the market is ready.
Agreed. I don't think the city actually wants/needs more giant plots to develop. They have space for the fieldhouse. To take on McMahon renovation plus the build out of the surrounding area would be a massive undertaking and while lots of mitigating factors, East Village vs University District, there's a clear winner and who's better at building a community.
Would they be? Compared to a 2016 minimal renovation cost for McMahon at $90 million?

The Real Madrid renovation was about $2.1B CAD. It was grouped in with other renovation costs and top Euro league soccer vs Stampede, the quality doesn't need to be as high here. But a true retractable system would run over $100M for sure.

 
What would the city accomplish with this control? The university will eventually build it up when the market is ready.


Yeah, a bubble I'd bet. A minimal cost thing to have some extra public benefit.


Would they be? Compared to a 2016 minimal renovation cost for McMahon at $90 million?
The control I'm talking about with McMahon is more to do with the prospective fieldhouse, and the ability to integrate Mcmahon into that as a recreation asset, not to do with the competency of building out the parking lots. I can't argue the city would do better at that.

To entertain the tray idea... you could have a tray field system that isn't as high-tech that breaks apart into pieces that can be towed by the tractor they move the Evening Show stage with and can be reassembled on the north portion of the infield of the track during Stampede and host the large patio or something else. Pretty low-tech but I think it would work. You could even leave the field in the north infield and buddle it in the winter to open the track and rodeo area to other uses. It isn't a stretch to have a parking lot to the east of the infield Grandstand that users of the buddle field could park at in the winter. That same parking lot could be used for tailgating during the football season. We'll see what happens. Crazy both McMahon and the Grandstand get 20 days of proper use throughout the year.

Also one thing I felt was missing from the new 20-year plan: A skyride/gondola that could run from Erlton Station to the Calgary Live/Scotia Place area and then another run from there to Grand Central. It's not something you'd need to run all the time but could be handy during events.
 
Agreed. I don't think the city actually wants/needs more giant plots to develop. They have space for the fieldhouse. To take on McMahon renovation plus the build out of the surrounding area would be a massive undertaking and while lots of mitigating factors, East Village vs University District, there's a clear winner and who's better at building a community.
On a 50-100 year timeline we could definitely use more giant plots, especially adjacent to transit lines. This one would be pretty close to West Village, but I'm not sure what other big plots we'll have in the second half of this century?

Bottom line for me is that there is a pretty big opportunity cost with McMahon lands (even if not immediately), but no opportunity cost at all for the Grandstand infield.
 
I think it has to be a mix of everything that has been proposed...

Ground level: A true public living room called "Stephen Avenue Commons"
Use the arcade edge as Calgary’s weather-protected promenade and fill that strip with uses that create “reasons to go” beyond shopping:
An experimental pop-up food hall + micro-retail (Leonard-like variety, but indoors): multiple small, more affordable spaces. You wouldn't be competing with anyone else downtown.
Experience-focused anchors at the corners (cafe; bar; showcase space for satellite post-secondary campus (read on))
A daily-programmed event spine: markets, mini-concerts, winter festival tie-ins, Indigenous makers weekends

Mid-levels (2–4): Education, innovation (Platform-like), and culture
Use these floors to drive daytime foot traffic:
Isn't CBE looking for more learning spaces? Could get them involved or could always go with a post-secondary satellite campus like AUA, SAIT or continuing education like Bow Valley College, can connect them with innovators in an incubation space
You can leverage those campuses for workforce training (digital skills, trades-adjacent programs, newcomer employment bridging)
Find education streams that could tie into the showcase space (exhibits, demos, “see what we're doing”)

Upper levels (5–6, and you could do something on the roof): Housing that brings people to the property at night
Use a couple floors for residential or even a hotel:
Use the large floor plate to your advantage, create a central space (with light wells, similar to what Glenbow just did) that shrinks the floor plate left over for mixed-income rentals
You could even include a student housing component or boutique hotel.
Add in a top floor or rooftop restaurant and event space (weddings, conferences, civic receptions), could also incorporate a rooftop garden (greenhouse-style), there would be some cool views of the city year-round

If you can break the floors and floor plate up and use incremental leasing, you don't need to eat an elephant in one bite. It will have to be a public–private partnership, especially if you're doing micro-retail and a hotel. It is important to not try and do everything right away, this can be a phased plan (so it doesn’t sit empty for years as the refined plan comes together)
Phase 0 (0–6 months): “In the meantime use” activation
Pop-ups (like River Hall but indoors (next winter): markets, art installations, social games space), it doesn't have to cost a lot but will get people in the door and using the space while the subsequent phases are refined.

Phase 1: Ground level
Get the ground-level “Commons” open first (fastest visible win).
Phase 2: Education floors
Bring in the weekday engine and these space could require less work than the housing or hotel.
Phase 3: Housing/hotel floors and rooftop
Finish with the components that will take the most work, by this time the building has momentum, and people will want to live or stay here.
Have you sent a bill to the City for all your design work?
 
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That amphitheatre would be really cool - it looks like they are using the PNE Amphitheatre as a placeholder which is under construction in Vancouver right now: View attachment 722987
Make the roof structure saddle shaped (as a monument to the Saddledome) and this is perfect.
That PNE amphitheatre has gone waaaay over budget BTW.
 
“We talked about the Stampeders, and I said, ‘The stadium has passed its shelf life.’ I don’t think that’s a surprise to anybody, and the reality is that we only play there 10 games a year, and so it has to be a stadium that is going to be, in my opinion, anyway, city-led,” he said.

I really hope they can figure this out to make it feasible to make this happen.
To my mind it’s either a field tray over the track or a track built over the field during the Stampede.
 
Having a football stadium on the grounds would still not solve the biggest problem with McMahon, no concerts. I'd rather they just massively renovate McMahon and have a full bowl stadium that can have concerts. Also, imagine the traffic in the area on one of the days there is a football and a hockey game at the same time!
The concerts thing as I understand it is the surrounding community, so any renovation other than perhaps replacing it with a full dome would still raise issues.

But also, stadium concerts are really not that much of a thing; we'd be lucky to get 2 a year. Nice to have, especially if you like metal and need to get your prostate checked, but not something to drop a billion dollars of infrastructure on.
 
If Calgary had a market for stadium concerts, they would already be happening at the existing Grandstand
We get Saddledome concerts (although maybe not as many as we used to), and the relatively rare U2-scale stadium shows go to the 50,000+ seat Commonwealth stadium in Edmonton. The existing Grandstand is not a replacement for that. (Maybe I'm missing your point?)
 
"No this time we are serious". The Stampede probably.
You do know that a master plan is literally just a guideline, not a committed/funded development plan. It opens the door for funding. By my count, in the 15 years they did the ag arena, youth campus, back of house, added an ex hall, newer LRT stop/17th integration, built the BMO, and now have the hotel and entire north portion under development with Scotia Place. If by 2039 they accomplish even 60% of what's planned...would anybody debate that the 30 year transformation was significant and game changing for the area?

To post this again... The Stampede CEO can say it is hard transition from a mud track to a football field, but Houston does it every year without issue. They use their football stadium for the Texans and it also gets used for basketball.

Can't always act like you'd be the first to do something. And let's not pretend that the rodeo and chucks are the main use, the Stampede is a 10-day event, the Stampeders would use it for another 10 days for games. That leaves, with 5 days on either end of the Stampede to transition, 335 days to do something else with the stadium. I mean they're including a Turf Field in their plan, if that isn't a wink to the Stampeders, I don't know what is. With something like this isn't a stretch to request provincial and federal funding for a revamped Stampede Stadium with of course the Stampede and CSEC chipping in some as well, the city wouldn't be on the hook for much in the scenario; that's a lot of funding partners.

As for the master plan, honestly it was a bit of a letdown for me. Most of it is fine but the Stampede HQ and "Calgary Live" are a massive project. Fully understanding this is just a concept of a plan but I wouldn't mind seeing that parcel broken up a little bit. For one, by breaking it up you don't need to do it all at once. Another reason is the sheer size of it; Stampede Park already has the BMO and Scotia Place that take up large parcels that restrict movement. A critique I think we generally have is large podiums and properties that don't break up the property and feel imposing on a human scale. It wouldn't be hard to break that parcel up and still maintain all of its uses and maybe even add a couple. Move the Turf Field to the southeast of the Amphitheatre to be by the linear park along the Elbow River. I'd also like to see a "Weadickville" town square northeast of Amphitheatre and Turf Field along the Elbow River, it could be a transition between the Live Events and Heritage Zone. I guess in summary what I want are more open spaces, not parking lots, but just spaces that don't feel so imposing to build or be in. You know make it Stampede "Park".
Houston is an indoor controlled facility who's football team is done 8 weeks before that rodeo...which is also not a horse track. Not saying it cant be done...but they arent wrong, it currently isn't being done anywhere outdoors in a 4-5 day span

Stampede Park's role isnt to be a "park" in your sense of the word. It's role is events, agriculture, destination tourism. They've built out plently of space in the NE and across the river for "quiet zones"....an entertainment district is exactly what they've scoped....streets/venues/attractions. None of the structures they've shown seem to be imposing or daunting...nor does it prevent them from being "broken up"...that's for designers once theres money commited to a project. The point really is, if its about food or music, put it "there"
 
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If Calgary had a market for stadium concerts, they would already be happening at the existing Grandstand
Grandstand + standing room has barely any more (if any) capacity than Saddledome (3/4) + floor seating. Saddledome in the round probably has slightly more.

Saddledome has more premium seats and suites; Grandstand has some excellent premium venues, but they are tailored to rodeo and evening show - you can spend more time schmoozing at a table and less in your 'bleacher seat' than you would during a concert.

It's also hard to ramp up the grandstand for one-off events. They've done it for Monster Jams, but it is hard to staff up (would become easier with ongoing Stampeders staff), and the Grandstand isn't as well suited to generate F&B revenue (Saddledome has a better idea of exactly how many hot dogs to thaw, and are likely to have another event within days before things spoil, etc).


But all of that can easily change with more capacity and design considerations (expect more typical suites in a new grandstand). It is still a bit weird that they're currently building [seemingly] permanent new infield suites within the confines of where the football field would be, but maybe they've somehow planned accordingly.
 

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