[nightstreak]

With Line 6 and 5 opening pretty much simultaneously — a massive addition to our city's rapid transit all at once — what can we expect downstream on Line 1? Will more people be taking the subway with it being convenient, further exacerbating crowding on Line 1 or will those closer to Eglinton or Finch who previously took Line 1 to get to a faster E/W route (Line 2) take a shorter bus ride to Lines 5 or 6 and avoid Line 1 entirely?

 

[nfitz]

With Line 6 and 5 opening pretty much simultaneously — a massive addition to our city's rapid transit all at once — what can we expect downstream on Line 1? Will more people be taking the subway with it being convenient, further exacerbating crowding on Line 1 or will those closer to Eglinton or Finch who previously took Line 1 to get to a faster E/W bus route take a shorter bus ride to Lines 5 or 6 and avoid Line 1 entirely?

It's the Yonge side of Line 1 that's the issue. Until recently at peak, a lot of the University-side trains stopped at Glencairn, there was so much less demand further north. So Line 6 Finch West won't have a significant impact. Nor should the the Eglinton line at Cedarvale. Line 1 at Eglinton station might get interesting - though ridership is still below the 2019 peak. And capacity there has increased now that the new signalling was installed.

It will be interesting to watch.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

With Line 6 and 5 opening pretty much simultaneously — a massive addition to our city's rapid transit all at once — what can we expect downstream on Line 1? Will more people be taking the subway with it being convenient, further exacerbating crowding on Line 1 or will those closer to Eglinton or Finch who previously took Line 1 to get to a faster E/W bus route take a shorter bus ride to Lines 5 or 6 and avoid Line 1 entirely?

The UP Express is not included in Ontario's One Fare Program, which allows free transfers between the TTC and other transit agencies like GO Transit, Brampton Transit, Durham Region Transit, MiWay, and York Region Transit. HOWEVER, passengers would be able to bypass Line 1 to get to Union Station using the Kitchener GO in 16 minutes, and use the One Fare Program.

From https://www.gotransit.com/en/find-a-station/md/mount-dennis-go

Starting November 16, 2025, all existing non-express train trips on the Kitchener line will now stop at the new Mount Dennis GO and UP Station.

• 64 weekday train trips (non-express) on the Kitchener line will service Mount Dennis GO with trains running every 30 minutes.
• 32 weekend (non-express) train trips on the Kitchener line will service Mount Dennis GO with trains running every 60 minutes.
• Two platforms will be used for UP and GO train service. Customers should check the departure board for platform details before boarding.

 

[nightstreak]

I guess Bloor Line 2 will be the major beneficiary here. That's 2 E/W lines opening at once. If someone further north took Line 2 to move across the city, now they can just take Eglinton (assuming it proves fast in mixed traffic). Maybe that'll have a relief effect at Line 1/2 interchange stations. Of course Line 3 will be needed to fix interchange station crowding more thoroughly but I wonder if we'll see any improvement after Eglinton opens, less so Finch but maybe somewhat.

 

[christiesplits]

Another question, in line with what @nightstreak asked.

Do we anticipate that Line 5 and Line 6 will reduce car congestion on Highway 401, as some intra-city, east/westbound travelers move to transit?

 

[Bordercollie]

Another question, in line with what @nightstreak asked.

Do we anticipate that Line 5 and Line 6 will reduce car congestion on Highway 401, as some intra-city, east/westbound travelers move to transit?

But from Humber West are there connections to ZUM? There should be some express service to Bramalea.

What about South to Kipling? I know there is the highway 27 express ..

 

[T3G]

And the remaining 4 on line 1 are trivial (each less than 200 metres, with only one having a significant reduction in speed (southbound Sheppard West to Wilson has 186 metres) where the speed is reduced from 46 km/hr to 20 km/hr).

I'm not sure trivial is an accurate word. This morning it took my train 3 minutes to get from Union to King, which is pretty bad. And then there was some kind of undeclared slow zone from King to Queen, too.

 

[evandyk]

The only time I've ever seen this consistently, is when there's been an earlier issue, and the trains are all backed up, having to wait for the trains before to clear the next platform.

I've certainly not seen it anytime recently on Line 2. How long have you been seeing it for?

They did this at Broadview today, in both directions. Trains slowed to a crawl and crept along the platform. I only saw it once (because we got on the train) but saw it in both directions.

 

[nfitz]

They did this at Broadview today, in both directions. Trains slowed to a crawl and crept along the platform. I only saw it once (because we got on the train) but saw it in both directions.

Presumably people on the tracks. That's not unusual to have a crew on the tracks. It was probably fine 20 minutes before and after. I wouldn't call that each station though - that's more like one station!

I'm not sure trivial is an accurate word. This morning it took my train 3 minutes to get from Union to King, which is pretty bad. And then there was some kind of undeclared slow zone from King to Queen, too.

That one has always seem way too slow - since back when the trains were red. At least it's not as squeaky as it used to be. Yeah, Union to King is listed as the second worst. Speed dropped from 27 km/hr to 15 km/hr for 183 metres.

Looking at the other two though ... in the opposite direction to St. Andrew, the speed is only reduced from 27 km/hr to 25 km/hr for 198 metres (? why even bother?). And the 4th is 152-metre long reduction from 32 km/hr to 25 km/hr near Davisville.

Compared to the 20+ minutes or so that it seemed to add southbound from Sheppard West to Eglinton West a few months ago, this now seems pretty trivial. This is nothing like the issue it was months ago. For once they seem to have fixed the systemic issue (or have just gone back to past habits of pretending there's no problem).

 

[urbanclient]

For the first time I've ever seen, there aren't any reduced speed zones on Line 2, in the December 1 update.

Which is deceptive. There was in fact a slow order between Vic Park and Warden recently.

Can someone explain what is the deal with Line 2 trains slowing to a crawl midway between each station and then crawling into each station? I mean how the heck is anybody supposed to get around when service is this unreliable?

@nfitz my sweet summer child, the official RSZ isn't accurate... Yes, in theory, there aren't that many RSZs but what is there to explain @6ixGod post and the minimum 7 minute slower than Google Maps ETA trip I experience from Union to North York Centre/Finch even with 0 RSZs northbound before the recent Union to King RSZ. And this is for trips that are NOT stuck holding at a station due to a real "delay" like a security incident.

The Line 1 trains are just plain slow, even outside the official RSZs. This is why I have repeatedly called these slow zones permanent RSZs. Case in point the entire above-ground Yonge section. A real delay where the train is stuck at a station only makes it worse (https://ttcdelayinsights.ca/).

I am tired of people citing Google Maps, the official TTC RSZ website, or the service summary. Please actually ride Line 1 more than 5 stops and you'll notice a longer than expected headway, and/or at least a longer than expected trip time. To those unfamiliar, the service summary lists theoretical headways at different times of day.

To explain how I feel when I see people pedantically repeat how theoretically-fast-and-definitely-not-delayed Line 1 is despite not riding it regularly, if ever, I am going to remix this post:

Bros on copium

"N-no ackshually guys the TTC is actually always on-time when there isn't a person on the tracks, trust me!111!!"

 

[IRT_BMT_IND]

Can someone explain what is the deal with Line 2 trains slowing to a crawl midway between each station and then crawling into each station? I mean how the heck is anybody supposed to get around when service is this unreliable?

Going east from Yonge this usually happens at Broadview, for headway control at the interlocking signal, Coxwell for crew changes, and Kennedy when trains are approaching the station more frequently then they are dispatched in the opposite direction. So the following trains get stuck at red signals until the first trains leaves the station. How bad it can be depends on how many trains get stuck in the jam and how fast the TTC can do things like crew changes. This was a problem pre-COVID (and the TTC tried various crewing strategies at the terminals to minimize it) and with the pre-COVID headways back this problem likely won't go away fully until ATC is installed on line 2 (or the TTC is willing to do short turns. which there aren't many spots for on Line 2). The current peak headway is now pretty much the maximum the signal system can support which means even tiny delays (like someone forcing the doors open) can cascade quickly.

 

[Amare]

Another question, in line with what @nightstreak asked.

Do we anticipate that Line 5 and Line 6 will reduce car congestion on Highway 401, as some intra-city, east/westbound travelers move to transit?

Basically very minimal/next to no effect on reducing 401 congestion. Any reduction would be quickly replaced by induced demand.

 

[81-717]

The [current] Line 1 trains are just plain slow, even outside the official RSZs.

Of course, this has been known especially pre-2013.

 

[nfitz]

@nfitz my sweet summer child, the official RSZ isn't accurate... Yes, in theory, there aren't that many RSZs but what is there to explain @6ixGod post ...[/QUOTE]There's no need to be condescending. Nothing explains 6ixGod's post. I'm on Line 2 all the time, and I simply don't observed this. Yes, there's been numerous RSZs on the Prince Edward Viaduct forever - none now it seems. And yes, there was something around Woodbine for a while. Travel times haven't changed forever - yes I time it. I know how long it takes, for example, for a train to get from Bathurst to Woodbine. Hasn't changed.

I really don't notice too much on Line 1 either. Yes, there's bigger gaps than scheduled - I'm surprised you think these are RSZs. And I'm surprised you think other delays are RSZs. They aren't.

 

[zang]

I really don't notice too much on Line 1 either. Yes, there's bigger gaps than scheduled - I'm surprised you think these are RSZs. And I'm surprised you think other delays are RSZs. They aren't.

As I ride the line many times over the week my perception is that approaching the station is most often where slowdowns happen. Is it also not protocol to slow-roll into a station if there are people standing close to the approach side of the platform? I seem to remember hearing that drivers (or I guess ATC) will be notified by those watching the security cameras if there's a potential jumper, and will enter the station slower in that case. And if such a directive exists, it's both more likely to happen as stations get more and more crowded, and something that would be eliminated almost entirely if we got some effing platform doors into stations.