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I’m sorry but if the city does have unlimited funds, they should help everyone.
However with so little money, I do agree it’s better to spend on people with a future. Like the health system selects people for organ transplant, the city should choose better.

Also I do think there should be some public bathrooms for everyone to use. Just in case anyone needs it. That includes regular cleaning.
 
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I’m sorry but if the city does have unlimited funds, they should help everyone.
However with so little money, I do agree it’s better to spend on people with a future. Like the health system selects people for organ transplant, the city should choose better.

Also I do think there should be some public bathrooms for everyone to use. Just in case anyone needs it. That includes regular cleaning.
First of all... eww, what a horrific statement.

Second of all, even if I agreed with your statement, taking care of the vulnerable benefits everybody. It is disingenuous to frame this as choosing to spend on people with a future, or not. Nobody, and I mean nobody, benefits from finding homeless people OD'ed down some alleyway or frozen to death in bus shelters, from people who are so far gone that they are shitting in the street or in TTC seats, or running around attacking people. Even from a purely utilitarian, heartless POV, all of society is lifted up when we help the homeless.

But of course, ew. What a horrendous way to speak about other human beings. The measure of a society is how it treats those on the bottom of its totem pole, not "those with a future" (whatever that means. I guess, by virtue of economic productivity and outlook, CEOs and other business douchebags are the only ones who the city should actually be spending money on).
 
I’m sorry but if the city does have unlimited funds, they should help everyone.
However with so little money, I do agree it’s better to spend on people with a future. Like the health system selects people for organ transplant, the city should choose better.

Also I do think there should be some public bathrooms for everyone to use. Just in case anyone needs it. That includes regular cleaning.
CAREFUL straddling the line of eugenics VERY CLOSELY
 
I’m sorry but if the city does have unlimited funds, they should help everyone.
However with so little money, I do agree it’s better to spend on people with a future. Like the health system selects people for organ transplant, the city should choose better.

Also I do think there should be some public bathrooms for everyone to use. Just in case anyone needs it. That includes regular cleaning.

With the admonishment from @ShonTron in mind......... I'd still like to politely and clearly address this.

Lets forget, for a moment, having a social or other conscience........... Lets make it hard math.

So, assuming you don't wish to advocate for intentionally causing harm...(which I trust you do not); we need to consider the following.

Leaving someone unhoused or untreated (properly) for addiction or mental illness results in the following adverse costs.

1) The disadvantaged souls themselves will end up in hospital ERs (they do now) for things ranging from gout, to frost bite, to dehydration to overdose.
These interventions are expensive. From a hospital accounting perspective (where you charge back the cost of overhead), every ER visit by anyone costs a minimum of 4k.
If you require medications, an extended stay/hospital admission, surgical or other interventions those costs can be vastly higher.

2) If these persons end up completely w/o shelter, they are either on the street, in a doorway, in a back alley or in a park. Putting aside the misery they may suffer as a result, there is an adverse economic impact. Coldly, it hurts tourism, the night economy, perceived public safety etc.

Interventions to get those folks off-the street, repeatedly, are also costly with teams of 2 or more professionals usually working together, often supported by police.

3) For a variety of reasons, some such persons will interact with the legal system, perhaps because of crimes they commit, but just as often as victims of same. Court time is expensive, jails are expensive.

4) If you do get them off the streets short term but don't address underlying health issues and/or don't permanently house them. Shelters run at over $6,000 per person per month. (24/7 staff and security are costly).

5) Delays experienced by riders on TTC are also costly in productivity and quality of life, completely apart from the cost of response to various incidents by TTC and Emergency personnel.

****

The notion that if we 'cut people off' because they're hard to help we will 'save' money that can be redeployed on the deserving is simply incorrect, even with the coldest and harshest of assessments.

That does not mean that we can't employ different solutions/techniques than what we employ today, or that some of those might not be described as 'tough love'. But there is no case to be made for 'ostriching' and
imagining the problem will self-resolve through low to no intervention.

Kindness and altruism, by and large are profitable from a societal point of view. We should behave with kindness in any event; but the cold hard math still works in favour of that world view.

High quality intervention, including permanent housing, is the lowest cost, highest revenue, long term play.

***

Edit to add: I don't think crisis teams at every station 18 hours a day is the most cost-effective or just plain effective use of dollars in the longer term. But as a short term play while we address the systemic and structural issues from housing to healthcare to platform edge doors, there's some sense to the effort, at least at stations known to experience inordinate challenges.
 
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How many stations exactly could we do with the money spent on renaming Dundas Square? Last I checked, the renaming didn’t even cost one million.
We could have helped several unhoused people or drug addicts with the hundreds of thousands which were spent on renaming Dundas Square. Nobody is actually offended by the Dundas name and erasing it won't help anyone.
 
We could have helped several unhoused people or drug addicts with the hundreds of thousands which were spent on renaming Dundas Square. Nobody is actually offended by the Dundas name and erasing it won't help anyone.

I opposed the renaming, but have no desire to rehash old discussions. While theoretically possible that a modest sum might have been saved here and reallocated to some social cause, it isn't particularly likely. The budget niceties of capital vs operating and how different things are funded etc is impactful here.

But even supposing one found '$1,000,000' to reallocate, I wouldn't want to trivialize that, but at the same time, Platform Edge Doors for one station are ~$15,000,000; and building a single affordable housing unit is ~$700,000 so lets not oversell how much a difference that money might have made, it would be small.

Its simply not an argument worth revisiting. It was an idea allowed to move forward under the right-leaning previous Mayor (Tory) and scaled back (Dundas St was not renamed) by the more left-leaning current Mayor (Chow). The right and left collectively backed it. It is what it is.

Its also not the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to solve even one other issue.

So lets move forward with constructive discussions about next year's budget, not last year's.
 
Whenever you say "we should spend money on people with a future", remember there are plenty who would look down at you and sneer that you don't have one compared to them, so why spend money on you?
 
I opposed the renaming, but have no desire to rehash old discussions. While theoretically possible that a modest sum might have been saved here and reallocated to some social cause, it isn't particularly likely. The budget niceties of capital vs operating and how different things are funded etc is impactful here.

But even supposing one found '$1,000,000' to reallocate, I wouldn't want to trivialize that, but at the same time, Platform Edge Doors for one station are ~$15,000,000; and building a single affordable housing unit is ~$700,000 so lets not oversell how much a difference that money might have made, it would be small.

Its simply not an argument worth revisiting. It was an idea allowed to move forward under the right-leaning previous Mayor (Tory) and scaled back (Dundas St was not renamed) by the more left-leaning current Mayor (Chow). The right and left collectively backed it. It is what it is.

Its also not the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to solve even one other issue.

So lets move forward with constructive discussions about next year's budget, not last year's.
doesn't change the fact that our current mayor and city council chose to go ahead and fast track this vanity project without public consultations while the city is going through a housing and drug crisis and they should be held accountable for it. Whether they spent $10 or $1 million on this renaming, it is too much.
 
doesn't change the fact that our current mayor and city council chose to go ahead and fast track this vanity project without public consultations while the city is going through a housing and drug crisis and they should be held accountable for it. Whether they spent $10 or $1 million on this renaming, it is too much.

We will have to disagree.

There are far greater issues, including expenditure choices at play, getting frothed over 1M out of an 18B budget .....which for clarity is less than 0.001% of annual expenditures is wrong headed. It confuses impulsive desire with material gain. Bigger Fish.
 
doesn't change the fact that our current mayor and city council chose to go ahead and fast track this vanity project without public consultations while the city is going through a housing and drug crisis and they should be held accountable for it. Whether they spent $10 or $1 million on this renaming, it is too much.

You’ve brought this up many times now. Let it rest.
 
TTC service changes coming September 28 to accommodate King Street West and Dufferin Street construction

September 26, 2025

Starting Sun., Sept. 28, the TTC will begin diverting its services to accommodate the renewal of aging streetcar tracks at the King St. W. and Dufferin St. intersection. This work will impact the 29/329 Dufferin, 503 Kingston Rd and 929 Dufferin Express buses, as well as the 504/304 King, and 508 Lake Shore streetcars. The City of Toronto will also undertake sidewalk replacement and tactile plate installation at the intersection.

“Investing in our transit infrastructure is essential to keeping Toronto moving safely and efficiently,” said Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow. “I know this work will impact Toronto residents and commuters, but these upgrades at King and Dufferin will improve accessibility and reliability for thousands of daily riders.”

“The TTC is committed to delivering safe, modern, and accessible service, and these upgrades are necessary to maintain reliable service on the streetcar network,” said TTC Chair Jamaal Myers. “We’re working closely with the City to minimize disruption and keep customers informed.\"

“Track renewal projects like this are vital to maintaining the integrity of our streetcar network,” said TTC CEO Mandeep S. Lali. “We’re focused on ensuring that service remains stable during construction, and we appreciate our customers’ patience as we work together to build a better city.\"

The following routes will be impacted:

• 29/329 Dufferin buses will divert both ways to King St. W. at Joe Shuster Way via Queen St. W. and Shaw St. 929 Dufferin Express buses will be shortened to Queen St. W.

• 503 Kingston Rd buses will operate between King St. W. at Joe Shuster Way and Bingham Loop (Kingston Rd. at Victoria Park Ave.).

• The 504A King/304 King and 508 Lake Shore streetcars will operate on Queen St. W. between Shaw St. and Roncesvalles Ave. 504B King streetcars will continue to be shortened to Bathurst St.

Wheel-Trans service will remain accessible in all areas where local traffic is permitted, and the 402 Parkdale community bus service will continue to operate along its regular routing.

The project is expected to continue until at least mid-November. Full details of the service adjustments are available at https://www.ttc.ca/riding-the-ttc/Updates/Important-changes-to-29-329-929-304-504-503-service.

The TTC is committed to keeping customers informed about work and events that impact service. Customers are encouraged to follow @TTCNotices on X or sign up for eAlerts. TTC Customer Service is available on @TTCHelps on X and by phone at 416-393-3030 daily from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. (closed on statutory holidays) for customers in need of support.
 

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