[81-717]

The funding is not in limbo.

Yes, I'm sure.

What part of "Yes I'm sure" in my post was confusing to you? I know what I'm talking about.

The train funding is safe..............can we move on please?

I appreciate your confidence, but can I ask how you can be so sure?

Reading Munro's latest post, he says:

During the meeting, we learned that the federal subway car funding is not yet a signed deal. Whether this will be locked down before an election is called remains to be seen.

Here we go back to square one again, so sick and tired of hearing the exact same caveat being parroted over and over again every few months like clockwork for the past 2.5 years (hopefully not this time though)

 

[Northern Light]

I appreciate your confidence, but can I ask how you can be so sure?

Good question, I'll give the 'overt' answer, which is that the City contract to purchase will close by month's end, that is then a legally binding deal w/the manufacturer, made in good faith, based on the federal dollar commitment.

Reading Munro's latest post, he says:

Here we go back to square one again, so sick and tired of hearing the exact same caveat being parroted over and over again every few months like clockwork for the past 2.5 years (hopefully not this time though)

He's not wrong that every 'I' is not dotted and 'T' crossed.

Could a future government attempt to walk this back...........sure......its not impossible. A previous provincial government literally filled in a subway tail track tunnel that had already been dug.

But that's a very expensive choice, and a very unpopular one.............

****

I feel confident in my assertion, but I've repeatedly said here, nothing is certain until its in the past. (even then, there are things we might revisit factually).....

 

[81-717]

Could a future government attempt to walk this back...........sure......its not impossible.

Even aside from that, the post made it sound like even the current government hasn't actually made the commitment everyone said it made.

 

[Northern Light]

Even aside from that, the post made it sound like even the current government hasn't actually made the commitment everyone said it made.

Its been made, there was a press conference for goodness sake.

In law, by the way, an oral contract is legally binding. (assuming you can prove it.............a room full of invited cameras and microphones helps)

 

[RapidTransit]

Its been made, there was a press conference for goodness sake.

In law, by the way, an oral contract is legally binding. (assuming you can prove it.............a room full of invited cameras and microphones helps)

If the contact hasn't been signed or completed, then it's not a binding contract.
Plus the ppl making the announcement is not the same as the people signing the paper work. Plus both sides would have to agree, which they haven't.
Based on what you said , technically TTC has an agreement with the 4 short listed manufacturers already.

I'll go with Steve Munro on this and what was already discussed at the TTC Board meeting , which again contradicts your above statements.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Northern Light]

If the contact hasn't been signed or completed, then it's not a binding contract.
Plus the ppl making the announcement is not the same as the people signing the paper work. Plus both sides would have to agree, which they haven't.
Based on what you said , technically TTC has an agreement with the 4 short listed manufacturers already.

I'll go with Steve Munro on this and what was already discussed at the TTC Board meeting , which again contradicts your above statements.

Thanks for the laugh.

I have no idea what has possessed you to be exceedingly rude.

I didn't insult you in any way.

I have a long standing track record here.

Is it possible I'm wrong? Sure. It happens. But not often. I dislike being wrong, and put a great deal of thought into my posts.

You see a lot of what I know here, but a lot less than everything that I know.

If that's insufficient for you, so be it. You're welcome to a different take.

No derision is required.

 

[RapidTransit]

I have no idea what has possessed you to be exceedingly rude.

I didn't insult you in any way.

I have a long standing track record here.

Is it possible I'm wrong? Sure. It happens. But not often. I dislike being wrong, and put a great deal of thought into my posts.

You see a lot of what I know here, but a lot less than everything that I know.

If that's insufficient for you, so be it. You're welcome to a different take.

No derision is required.

I just broke down how I didn't think it was a contract based on what I've seen from Steve munro to the TTC board. I certainly don't have the inside info that you have.

I was actually hoping to be corrected. I didn't think I was being exceedingly rude to you.

 

[evandyk]

In law, by the way, an oral contract is legally binding. (assuming you can prove it.............a room full of invited cameras and microphones helps)

An oral contract can be binding, but only if both parties agreed to all the terms. In a complex agreement with many terms being discussed/negotiated, it's almost impossible to prove that all have been landed unless you have a single signed document containing all of them.

 

[Northern Light]

I just broke down how I didn't think it was a contract based on what I've seen from Steve munro to the TTC board. I certainly don't have the inside info that you have.

I was actually hoping to be corrected. I didn't think I was being exceedingly rude to you.

"Thanks for the Laugh" was the rude bit. It implies my post was a joke, lacking seriousness or credibility.

 

[RapidTransit]

"Thanks for the Laugh" was the rude bit. It implies my post was a joke, lacking seriousness or credibility.

I genuinely there might have been sarcasm in what you wrote. So just to save face, I made those comments.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Of course this isn't new. It's been that way for decades - but with TTC stopping enforcement, it's gotten worse.

I just want the TTC to have iron clad fare enforcement. Do that and you automatically increase the sense of safety and order for the paying passengers. I expect a good portion of the muttering, shouting, flaying, sleeping, stabbing, pushing and incinerating among us have not paid their fare. Stop them at the gate, NOT on the system. When I was a young adult in the 1980s you had to board at the front, and the driver ensured you'd paid. I well recall drivers in the 1980s stopping the bus until someone who hadn't paid, did so or got off. My grandad was a London bus driver and even as a young lad I remember him and the fare collector taking no sh#t from the drunks or vagrants who shirked their fares - mind, Grandad was a combat vet, as were many.

The POP system and all doors boarding on the streetcars (and often buses) has sped up boarding, but it came at the same time as the polite, law-abiding society that was Canada was changing to the meaner, take what you can society, beset with addiction and mental illness issues that we have today. Imagine if Loblaws had a POP system - take the food you want, and there's a 0-1% chance anyone will challenge you at the door - the place would be empty in a day. To my mind, the fare collection has two jobs - one to fund the system, the other to keep out those who will not pay. That's why I love taking my family to the Toronto Islands - you know that everyone you see enjoying the day paid to get onto that ferry, which automatically filters out the junkies and insane that make us feel unsafe - instead the islands are like a city park from the 1970s or 80s, with families have fun, letting their guard down.

TTC, enforce the fares so that none shall pass. That's what it will take to return a sense of safety to your paying customers.

 

[nfitz]

I just want the TTC to have iron clad fare enforcement. Do that and you automatically increase the sense of safety and order for the paying passengers.

Indeed - most people do feel safer in a highly policed state.

 

[Mihairokov]

Why even have public transit at all? It seems like it's being abused by people beneath me.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Indeed - most people do feel safer in a highly policed state.

I'm not sure I'd call making sure people pay for the services they use as highly policed. Is my home internet service or gas for my car highly policed because I must pay to get it? Are the Toronto Islands highly policed? Of course not, and it's not necessary because the disruptive elements will not pay to get onto the ferry. If you have effective fare collection you don't need a highly policed state as it concerns the TTC - as those who need policing are not on the TTC. But I admit I loved my time in Singapore, they know how to run a county/city there. I remember I was a Fort Siloso and my ticket receipt blew out of my hand. Well, didn't I race after it as I was not going to be responsible for the one piece of litter in the entire park.

Why even have public transit at all? It seems like it's being abused by people beneath me.

We could make it entirely public transit, with no fare collection at all. We'd save on fare collectors and enforcement costs. It's been done elsewhere, https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/free-transit-orangeville-1.7378695. In Toronto's case we'd see the system quickly turn into something from Deathwish, but it would be public transit for all.

 

[RapidTransit]

I just want the TTC to have iron clad fare enforcement. Do that and you automatically increase the sense of safety and order for the paying passengers. I expect a good portion of the muttering, shouting, flaying, sleeping, stabbing, pushing and incinerating among us have not paid their fare. Stop them at the gate, NOT on the system. When I was a young adult in the 1980s you had to board at the front, and the driver ensured you'd paid. I well recall drivers in the 1980s stopping the bus until someone who hadn't paid, did so or got off. My grandad was a London bus driver and even as a young lad I remember him and the fare collector taking no sh#t from the drunks or vagrants who shirked their fares - mind, Grandad was a combat vet, as were many.

The POP system and all doors boarding on the streetcars (and often buses) has sped up boarding, but it came at the same time as the polite, law-abiding society that was Canada was changing to the meaner, take what you can society, beset with addiction and mental illness issues that we have today. Imagine if Loblaws had a POP system - take the food you want, and there's a 0-1% chance anyone will challenge you at the door - the place would be empty in a day. To my mind, the fare collection has two jobs - one to fund the system, the other to keep out those who will not pay. That's why I love taking my family to the Toronto Islands - you know that everyone you see enjoying the day paid to get onto that ferry, which automatically filters out the junkies and insane that make us feel unsafe - instead the islands are like a city park from the 1970s or 80s, with families have fun, letting their guard down.

TTC, enforce the fares so that none shall pass. That's what it will take to return a sense of safety to your paying customers.

Your going to get a lot of sensitive push back on this. But I completely agree with you.
We need harsher laws to back up operators , and punishment to deter others from playing around on the system.

The point you make about the Toronto island is spot on. And the way you grew up on TTC is the same way I remember TTC. People know they can get away with being a disturbance in TTC , and even have supports even in UT that will have a bleeding heart for ppl that have no intentions of changing their criminal behavior.

We need a federal laws in place to protect law abiding citizens on the system. Assaulting a TTC operator or any transit employee should be automatic 5 years. Not this catch and release nonsense.

It doesn't have to be a police state, because everytime you arrest someone , they'll be in jail.