[turbanplanner]

You're the one making the claim, show me every street that has been finished, and then indicate where it was cut within 6 months.

You're not a professor and this isn't a university course. Believe me or not I don't care (I did mention several examples earlier, martin grove above rexdale blvd, steels at hwy 400, queensway at east mall, horner being totally repaved for no reason then trenched immidately after) but the way the city has basically no standards for contractors is incredibly apparent...

 

[Admiral Beez]

My adult daughter was on the streetcar yesterday coming eastbound from College St. when a guy gets on, doesn't tap and walks up and down the streetcar approaching each woman to a few inches and shouting a litany of misogyny at them. Was it just another random nutbar, some wigged out junkie, or just a angry, potentially violent character? The sole TTC employee is safely in their glazed in cabin, so the folks were on their own. Pushing the safety button would do nothing, as the driver can clearly see what's happening and carries on along the route as this guy screams away. Two stops on, the guy gets off, leaving everyone rattled and further disappointed in our city.

Is there anywhere in this city where one can just go about their day without encountering such folks? We used to have laws or even societal norms against public nuisance. I don't want to live in a police state, but when the TTC just looks the other way as their customers are verbally assaulted and intimidated, well the place has gone to hell.

 

[Richard White]

My adult daughter was on the streetcar yesterday coming eastbound from College St. when a guy gets on, doesn't tap and walks up and down the streetcar approaching each woman two a few inches and shouting at them. Was it just another random nutbar, some wigged out junkie, or just a angry, potentially violent character? The sole TTC employee is safely in their glazed in cabin, so the folks were on their own. Pushing the safety button would do nothing, as the driver can clearly see what's happening and carries on along the route as this guy screams away. Two stops on, the guy gets off, leaving everyone rattled and further disappointed in our city.

I see this frequently.

It is a society thing, not a TTC thing. Our legal system is designed to let these people off the hook without any supports.

As we recently saw with the person who set a woman on fire at Kipling Station, they get let go back onto the streets without consequences.

Unfortunately, unless our legal system changes and lunatic asylums are reopened nothing will change.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It is a society thing, not a TTC thing. Our legal system is designed to let these people off the hook without any supports.

Not every ass on the TTC is mentally ill or in need of supports. Some people are just bad, not broken.

 

[Richard White]

Not every ass on the TTC is mentally ill or in need of supports. Some people are just bad, not broken.

Fair enough but at the same time there still needs to be supports.

I wonder how much of the employees not responding to incidents is because of ATU 113 and/or the Occupational Health and Safety Act.

 

[evandyk]

There seems to be like three people on this site who have the absolute worst luck on the TTC, always encountering this type of thing. Meanwhile I take my son to school and commute to work on the TTC every day, use it in the evening for activities, meetings, etc. and while this does happen, I encounter it something like once a year. And really not much recently, since the warmer weather means that people aren't using the TTC in place of a shelter system right now.

 

[T3G]

Fair enough but at the same time there still needs to be supports.

I wonder how much of the employees not responding to incidents is because of ATU 113 and/or the Occupational Health and Safety Act.

Why would it take the union or some law to get employees to have some concept of self preservation?

These people aren't trained to be cops or bodyguards, and unless they're built like a tank, there is a not zero chance that any attempt to intervene will just end badly for them. All they can do is radio for the police if there's a sketchy person at large.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Fair enough but at the same time there still needs to be supports.

I wonder how much of the employees not responding to incidents is because of ATU 113 and/or the Occupational Health and Safety Act.

It's not up to the TTC to fix the issue of mentally ill and addicted folks wandering the city. But nor can the TTC ignore the reality in which it operates to the detriment of its customers. Absolute fare enforcement in known trouble areas would help - with a fare inspector embarked on every 501, 504, 505 and 506 streetcar between Bathurst and Sherbourne. No one gets on without paying. And yes, it's expensive for the extra payroll, but what's the alternative, scare every into their cars?

 

[PL1]

As we recently saw with the person who set a woman on fire at Kipling Station, they get let go back onto the streets without consequences.

This is a mischaracterization of what happened. The person was found not criminally responsible, and will definitely be incarcerated in a mental institution until they are deemed to no longer a threat. This is a part of the justice system and has been for a long time.

From this story: "He will now appear at a hearing before the Ontario Review Board, which will determine the hospital where he will be held and what privileges, if any, he'll have there."

The person was not high fived and released.

 

[Richard White]

Absolute fare enforcement in known trouble areas would help - with a fare inspector embarked on every 501, 504, 505 and 506 streetcar between Bathurst and Sherbourne. No one gets on without paying. And yes, it's expensive for the extra payroll, but what's the alternative, scare every into their cars?

In areas like this, they would need support in the form of TPS or a Special constable.

Can you imagine what sort of reaction a looney toon getting on at Dundas and Jarvis or riding the subway may have when confronted. Fare inspectors have no authority to do more than check fares and call for support if needed.

There needs to be the ability to remove people from vehicles, not just issue them a ticket they cannot reasonably pay.

 

[Richard White]

Why would it take the union or some law to get employees to have some concept of self preservation?

These people aren't trained to be cops or bodyguards, and unless you're built like a tank, there is a not zero chance that any attempt to intervene will just end badly for them. All they can do is radio for the police if there's a sketchy person at large.

That was the mentality up until the late 1990s.

My father started at the TTC in 1989 and had to deal with alot of situations on his own without support. He has a number of stories wherein he had to manhandle someone and throw them off his bus for doing drugs.

He has other stories where he came across someone throwing punches at another operator who was at a stop. In that case, he parked his bus and went to assist while the original operator took a fire extinguisher to the back of the persons head (and was later fired for it).

With all the cameras and bleeding hearts now, it would be impossible for any operator to defend themselves and avoid risking jail time or being publicly persecuted via social media.

Many years ago, prior to the installation of the cab shields my father was asked to wear a seatbelt while driving by his supervisor. His response was no because he felt it would impede his ability to defend himself when assaulted.

As he quite plainly put it, the people they are hiring now do not care. They just sit in the seat and collect a paycheque without actually knowing or caring about what they are doing.

 

[T3G]

That was the mentality up until the late 1990s.

My father started at the TTC in 1989 and had to deal with alot of situations on his own without support. He has a number of stories wherein he had to manhandle someone and throw them off his bus for doing drugs.

He has other stories where he came across someone throwing punches at another operator who was at a stop. In that case, he parked his bus and went to assist while the original operator took a fire extinguisher to the back of the persons head (and was later fired for it).

With all the cameras and bleeding hearts now, it would be impossible for any operator to defend themselves and avoid risking jail time or being publicly persecuted via social media.

Many years ago, prior to the installation of the cab shields my father was asked to wear a seatbelt while driving by his supervisor. His response was no because he felt it would impede his ability to defend himself when assaulted.

Well, let me ask you something - describe to me your father's physical build in 1989. There are two possibilities here: either the dude was ripped, in which case he would automatically have the physical advantage over many sketchy folk using the system, or he himself was closer in physique to an emaciated drug user, in which case getting into fights with the criminals of the TTC would be a horrifically stupid thing to do, and the fact that he lived to tell the tale is because of sheer dumb luck.

So, which is it?

As he quite plainly put it, the people they are hiring now do not care. They just sit in the seat and collect a paycheque without actually knowing or caring about what they are doing.

That's a pretty ignorant mischaracterization of the collect situation.

It needs to be said again - clearly, it didn't sink in the first time - these people aren't trained to be cops or bodyguards, and unless they're built like a tank, there is a not zero chance that any attempt to intervene will just end badly for them. There is NOTHING in the job description about getting physical with crack heads or gangbangers. There are older people who drive, there are women, and in fact there are a lot of men who do not have the build for that type of confrontation, either. Why should they be expected to put themselves at risk because the police and the city politicians don't feel like doing their jobs?

 

[allengeorge]

TTC expects downtown streetcar service to resume Wednesday night

There will be no service between King Street West at Spadina Avenue east side and King Street East at Church Street east side, the TTC said.

www.thestar.com

 

[turbanplanner]

This is a mischaracterization of what happened. The person was found not criminally responsible, and will definitely be incarcerated in a mental institution until they are deemed to no longer a threat. This is a part of the justice system and has been for a long time.

From this story: "He will now appear at a hearing before the Ontario Review Board, which will determine the hospital where he will be held and what privileges, if any, he'll have there."

The person was not high fived and released.

Who cares when we have pretty much daily cases of people breaking their bail reequipments for the 2nd 3rd 4th or 7th time?

"Toronto Police have charged a guy they say is the man in a viral video who allegedly swung a knife toward a man during a road rage incident in Scarborough Sunday."

And he’s already out on bail, even though he was charged with two counts of breaching previous court conditions.

WARMINGTON: Quick bail for man allegedly caught threatening person with knife

It's hard to run or hide when your face and licence plate are captured on video and shared around the world.

torontosun.com

Look at the news article for any violent or gun crime? Almost without exception the attacker had been charged with failing to abide by parole requirements

My adult daughter was on the streetcar yesterday coming eastbound from College St. when a guy gets on, doesn't tap and walks up and down the streetcar approaching each woman to a few inches and shouting a litany of misogyny at them. Was it just another random nutbar, some wigged out junkie, or just a angry, potentially violent character? The sole TTC employee is safely in their glazed in cabin, so the folks were on their own. Pushing the safety button would do nothing, as the driver can clearly see what's happening and carries on along the route as this guy screams away. Two stops on, the guy gets off, leaving everyone rattled and further disappointed in our city.

Is there anywhere in this city where one can just go about their day without encountering such folks? We used to have laws or even societal norms against public nuisance. I don't want to live in a police state, but when the TTC just looks the other way as their customers are verbally assaulted and intimidated, well the place has gone to hell.

Have you tried telling her these incidents are very rare /s (mostly because people don't bother reporting incidents if they know action won't be taken)

 

[T3G]

Have you tried telling her these incidents are very rare /s (mostly because people don't bother reporting incidents if they know action won't be taken)

I mean, this argument is more than a little unhelpful, because it doesn't specify to what degree these incidents are supposed to be underreported. This is veering into speculative fiction territory. If these incidents are not reported, how do you know that they are happening?

Also, "I won't bother reporting this incident because I know action won't be taken" is a level of jaded cynicism that I think is safe to say cannot be extrapolated to the population at large. I myself am manifestly a jaded cynic and such a thought would never occur to me.