[JSF-1]

Made a new map for my upcoming video on the Toronto Suburban Railway. What helps the TSR stand out is not only the fact it operated multiple interurbans, but also the fact it operated a local streetcar network in the Town of West Toronto. It also had connections with the Toronto and Guelph streetcar networks, although only Guelph was nice enough to let the TSR operate on its tracks into downtown.

 

[Arkiasis]

I asked AI to generate the ideal subway network for Toronto, and it gave me this nonsense.

Carte du métro de Toronto

A conversational AI system that listens, learns, and challenges

chatgpt.com

If everything is Eglinton then one of them will be bound to open! Also love the "downstow" relief line across the lake to nowhere. We'll create our own Channel Tunnel!

 

[Red_Bulmer]

Wasting time when I should be working, here is my fantasy subway map made on Google Earth.

Purple Line: Spadina streetcar is replaced by underground subway, surface street gets protected bike lanes.
Red Line: mainly to serve densifying Eastside of downtown, but also alleviate crowded interchange stations on Yellow Line, Westend gets more direct route to Downtown.
(platform added at Union to the south of the station, likely only touching at a corner and giving potential for station entrance in South Core near ACC)
Light Blue Line: extended up Dufferin Street in the Westend, goes all the way to Markham in the Northeast.
Orange Line: don't care much about this line that should have been a subway, stations not labelled.
Dark Grey Line: extended slightly south in the Westend to reach Woodbine Racetrack, maybe even more south to create interchange with Pink Line and Go Station.
Pink Line: extended to the Zoo in the Eastend, and to the airport in the Westend choosing a Sheppard alignment for the potential to develop multiple golf courses.
Green Line: extended to Mississauga big mall with limited other stops, and as far as Markville in the Northeast. (Bay Station eliminated, new interchange station at Bloor/Avenue)
Teal Line: a single stop to the harbour/ferry terminal, replacing the underground streetcar, could be any kind of train. This makes the future streetcar extension East not have vehicles diverting to Union.
Turquoise Line: single stop to the downtown airport, this would of course transition to an elevated train to cross the channel.
Yellow Line: some re-alignment downtown, new tunnel would follow Dupont/Davenport/Avenue and go around the West side of Queen's Park.
(Summerhill, Spadina North, and Museum Stations eliminated) (Allen Road buried and new land above redeveloped) (Several stations renamed)
Dark Blue Cross Lines: solving the biggest issue in the city, our inability to travel diagonally!!!
The blue line platforms in the centre of the X have the potential to all be connected at the corners, greatly expanding The Path Network up to College street…or there could instead be a single station with just two platforms that have pedestrian walkways to the surrounding stations on both sides of the Yellow Line.
More diagonal lines could also be built south of King street, connecting to existing lines with a single stop added in the middle of dense Entertainment District (pictured in the last screenshot).

hope you enjoy, cheers

 

[Aplus23]

Can someone make me a fantasy lrt line travelling east from probably union, heading towards Woodbine beach heads north to Kingston & then east from there & terminating at UTSC

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Can someone make me a fantasy lrt line travelling east from probably union, heading towards Woodbine beach heads north to Kingston & then east from there & terminating at UTSC

My take is that this isn't sensibly a standalone line, but does make some sense as a Kingston Road/Waterfront East through route extended to Kennedy meeting EELRT:

Not much of an LRT, basically all on street, but it can quite reasonably duck onto the Stoufville ROW for Kennedy access.

And there's a very good case for keeping it on Queen over to Broadview for an Ontario Line connection.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Didn't the city actually plan this line several years ago and then decide it wouldn't work?

 

[Mihairokov]

Feel like this Line does a lot of what Ontario and Danforth Lines already do although I can't deny that Queen East/Kingston Road could sorely use more reliable and higher order transit.

 

[Aplus23]

Feel like this Line does a lot of what Ontario and Danforth Lines already do although I can't deny that Queen East/Kingston Road could sorely use more reliable and higher order transit.

I was thinking of a E-W line south of Danforth & the OL

 

[Mihairokov]

I was thinking of a E-W line south of Danforth & the OL

Definitely. I think with OL coming online something like a Dundas-Kingston Road subway might be more effective, but that's IMO. Queen is mostly covered by OL west of Pape.

 

[KhalilHeron]

Some of these pictures aren't great as they were for my own use but a bunch of different rail alternatives were studied during the planning of the Scarborough Expressway. got some cool maps here.

 

[HuskyJet]

As for Orillia, I would agree that it is difficult to get there. My thoughts were a loop around Barrie (with some kind of North Barrie/Midhurst station) that links up with the old Oro-Medonte rail trail that leads to downtown Orillia, which would need to be restored into a railway again.

I knew I remembered the talk of a GO rail line to Orillia from way back (found it back from this post in 2022) so this isn't my own novel idea, but this earworm got me thinking while I was bored one day how rail could possibly be restored through Orillia and it gave me kind of a grand idea:

Running a green field ROW west from Allandale GO along BCRY until and following HWY400 north then eastbound. It would then peel off east and connect with the old rail line into Orillia. Since the effort would already be made to reactivate to Orillia, why not reactivate all the way to Washago to connect it to the passenger services that run/will run through there.

Closer look at the ROW through Barrie. I envision a station/park-and-ride added beside HWY400 between Georgian College and Royal Victoria Hospital in north Barrie.

Satellite views of property impact for the alignment. Beyond the initial curve to the 400 ROW, the remaining curves are sized (ish) for full speed class 4 track (80 mph passenger).

Pros:
- reestablish rail connectivity to Orillia as the Orillia GO line
- creates a passenger-dedicated northern trunk line connecting the Barrie Line to North Bay (ie, not just a GO/Metrolinx asset, but potential Northlander asset as well)
- possibility of through-freight activity connecting north to the transcontinental CN/CPKS main trunks (for whatever that's worth)
- avoids relying on CN/CPKS tracks to skirt around Barrie. Metrolinx/the province would own and control all the way to Washago
- North Barrie station connects Georgian and the hospital to regional transit. Station placement at the junction of HWY400/11 could act as strategic park and ride location for Toronto-bound traffic from the north. Also means Allandale GO can be preserved as a pedestrian/transit oriented station while the park and rides can be pushed to North and South Barrie GOs
- Northlander can now connect to Orillia, Barrie, and Aurora (especially useful transfer potentials after GO expansion)

Cons:
- in what world will this be built?? Hence why it's in the fantasy thread...
- property acquisition required, especially east of Barrie to Shanty Bay and through Orillia.
- likely an expensive build through Barrie with all the highway interchanges it would have to navigate
- the ROW through Casino Rama is an issue. Maybe the province offers them a station and Rama might even invest some of their own into it? I do feel the line needs to connect to Washago to be valuable to multiple stakeholders/agencies or else this line is just an expensive GO extension to Orillia (arguably not big enough to justify rail service on it's own)
- I have no idea whether the grades and vertical curves along HWY400 could even support this

Anyways, that's just my fun thought experiment of the day. Would love to hear your guys' thoughts/comments/concerns or if anyone has heard insight about if this old ROW has been banked by the province or county?

 

[Sauga89]

I knew I remembered the talk of a GO rail line to Orillia from way back (found it back from this post in 2022) so this isn't my own novel idea, but this earworm got me thinking while I was bored one day how rail could possibly be restored through Orillia and it gave me kind of a grand idea:

View attachment 673071

Running a green field ROW west from Allandale GO along BCRY until and following HWY400 north then eastbound. It would then peel off east and connect with the old rail line into Orillia. Since the effort would already be made to reactivate to Orillia, why not reactivate all the way to Washago to connect it to the passenger services that run/will run through there.

View attachment 673072

Closer look at the ROW through Barrie. I envision a station/park-and-ride added beside HWY400 between Georgian College and Royal Victoria Hospital in north Barrie.

View attachment 673074View attachment 673073

Satellite views of property impact for the alignment. Beyond the initial curve to the 400 ROW, the remaining curves are sized (ish) for full speed class 4 track (80 mph passenger).

Pros:
- reestablish rail connectivity to Orillia as the Orillia GO line
- creates a passenger-dedicated northern trunk line connecting the Barrie Line to North Bay (ie, not just a GO/Metrolinx asset, but potential Northlander asset as well)
- possibility of through-freight activity connecting north to the transcontinental CN/CPKS main trunks (for whatever that's worth)
- avoids relying on CN/CPKS tracks to skirt around Barrie. Metrolinx/the province would own and control all the way to Washago
- North Barrie station connects Georgian and the hospital to regional transit. Station placement at the junction of HWY400/11 could act as strategic park and ride location for Toronto-bound traffic from the north. Also means Allandale GO can be preserved as a pedestrian/transit oriented station while the park and rides can be pushed to North and South Barrie GOs
- Northlander can now connect to Orillia, Barrie, and Aurora (especially useful transfer potentials after GO expansion)

Cons:
- in what world will this be built?? Hence why it's in the fantasy thread...
- property acquisition required, especially east of Barrie to Shanty Bay and through Orillia.
- likely an expensive build through Barrie with all the highway interchanges it would have to navigate
- the ROW through Casino Rama is an issue. Maybe the province offers them a station and Rama might even invest some of their own into it? I do feel the line needs to connect to Washago to be valuable to multiple stakeholders/agencies or else this line is just an expensive GO extension to Orillia (arguably not big enough to justify rail service on it's own)
- I have no idea whether the grades and vertical curves along HWY400 could even support this

Anyways, that's just my fun thought experiment of the day. Would love to hear your guys' thoughts/comments/concerns or if anyone has heard insight about if this old ROW has been banked by the province or county?

I too had this thought, and I would suggest you read pages 183 and 184 of the Ontario Northland thread, and pages 1565 and 1566 of the GO service thread.

In short, those with more knowledge than me said, as you guessed, that the grades and curves on the 400 couldn't support it. I do still wonder if those challenges could be overcome by re-grading or tunnelling sections if you threw enough money at it, but... I've had that argument and I don't care to repeat it here.

 

[HuskyJet]

I too had this thought, and I would suggest you read pages 183 and 184 of the Ontario Northland thread, and pages 1565 and 1566 of the GO service thread.

In short, those with more knowledge than me said, as you guessed, that the grades and curves on the 400 couldn't support it. I do still wonder if those challenges could be overcome by re-grading or tunnelling sections if you threw enough money at it, but... I've had that argument and I don't care to repeat it here.

Wow, yeah totally missed the GO service thread discussion when that happened. You basically argued all the points I have in mind.

Those guys did make it sound like it's impossible to build next to the 400....I'm with you; it may not be as simple as a track right beside the road versus graded/tunneled sections á la Brightline style (yes it's more complicated than that, I know, don't behead me gents). Anyways, we can dream

 

[micheal_can]

Wow, yeah totally missed the GO service thread discussion when that happened. You basically argued all the points I have in mind.

Those guys did make it sound like it's impossible to build next to the 400....I'm with you; it may not be as simple as a track right beside the road versus graded/tunneled sections á la Brightline style (yes it's more complicated than that, I know, don't behead me gents). Anyways, we can dream

What may also work would be to continue the Barrie line till it meets the CPKC line, head north to the old rail bed in Coldwater that would then connect to Orillia. Someone may know better,but it looks like the ROW from Coldwater to Orillia is still mainly intact.

 

[christiesplits]

Also, once your at Vaughan Mills then there's Canada's Wonderland less than 2 km away, and Cortellucci Hospital another 500 m from that.

Alternatively, we can extend one of the roller coasters by a few kilometers.