Goodbye Giotelli
Hello Menzone

Assessment of crowd: few people outside, a lot of people inside.

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stevedean said:
First off, thank you for actually going and taking photos.

Second, If you look at my comments earlier, I did not question the indoor food court success - it's fully enclosed and has always been popular when I've gone.

Third, I never said there would be NO one there - I questioned whether there would be more people and the retail stores would be more successful if the mall was fully enclosed. Compared to Eaton Centre, those pictures make it look a bit like a ghost town.

And as I said before, it's brand new and it has a "cool" factor to it. What happens when that fades in a few years?

Is it really so bad that someone questions the design of a project?
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I feel like you are rating the Well with basic North American Suburb Mall standard. Malls and strip malls are often not build around density. People go to strip mall to purpose-driven shopping and indoor mall as a 3rd space. But these are quite outdated as urban concept, since they are all built for cars - People don't walk by naturally.

I think the only exception to that is Eaton Center.

Anyways - The Well is kinda a different thing. It is built around density (both residential and office), with easy access points to street carts and upcoming Ontario Line. People doesn't even need to go there for the Well, they can go there for the bars and restaurants on King and ended up dropping by the Well.
 
Tyrang said:
I feel like you are rating the Well with basic North American Suburb Mall standard. Malls and strip malls are often not build around density. People go to strip mall to purpose-driven shopping and indoor mall as a 3rd space. But these are quite outdated as urban concept, since they are all built for cars - People don't walk by naturally.

I think the only exception to that is Eaton Center.

Anyways - The Well is kinda a different thing. It is built around density (both residential and office), with easy access points to street carts and upcoming Ontario Line. People doesn't even need to go there for the Well, they can go there for the bars and restaurants on King and ended up dropping by the Well.
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You can rate the Well in any way you want but from a commercial perspective the stores and restaurants need customers. If they attract customers all year they will do well, if not they won't. Once one has seen the (interesting) architecture one does not need to go there 'for the Well' and, if the retail and food/drink offerings do not attract people in their own right, the development will 'fail' no matter how much density surrounds it.
 
DSCToronto said:
You can rate the Well in any way you want but from a commercial perspective the stores and restaurants need customers. If they attract customers all year they will do well, if not they won't. Once one has seen the (interesting) architecture one does not need to go there 'for the Well' and, if the retail and food/drink offerings do not attract people in their own right, the development will 'fail' no matter how much density surrounds it.
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True - I think someone did compare this to the Aura Shops, and while both has density, the Shops at Aura failed. Maybe I need to give merits beyond density, like the shops and how easy it is to walk through the Well.

Anyways, I can only see the Well does even better once Wellington street get more built out with King completion and Ontario Line being ready.
 
DSCToronto said:
You can rate the Well in any way you want but from a commercial perspective the stores and restaurants need customers. If they attract customers all year they will do well, if not they won't. Once one has seen the (interesting) architecture one does not need to go there 'for the Well' and, if the retail and food/drink offerings do not attract people in their own right, the development will 'fail' no matter how much density surrounds it.
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Good architecture is not a matter of seeing something once and saying "I'm good, never have to see this again".
 
Tyrang said:
True - I think someone did compare this to the Aura Shops, and while both has density, the Shops at Aura failed. Maybe I need to give merits beyond density, like the shops and how easy it is to walk through the Well.

Anyways, I can only see the Well does even better once Wellington street get more built out with King completion and Ontario Line being ready.
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I do not think you can fairly compare the shops @ Aura with those @ The Well (or the two 'malls'). Aura has the advantage that it could have had lots of passing traffic IF the architect/developer had actually thought about how it was (and could be) linked to other adjacent underground areas and if the stores were rented/sold to different businesses. The Well has the drawback that it is 'stand-alone' but the benefit of a MUCH more thoughtful architect/developer and a range of stores and restaurants that should attract customers. For many reasons, Aura is rated a "fail' by many of us, The Well is clearly not a fail - though I will be interested in seeing how the stores & restaurants do over the next few years.
 
Tyrang said:
I feel like you are rating the Well with basic North American Suburb Mall standard. Malls and strip malls are often not build around density. People go to strip mall to purpose-driven shopping and indoor mall as a 3rd space. But these are quite outdated as urban concept, since they are all built for cars - People don't walk by naturally.

I think the only exception to that is Eaton Center.

Anyways - The Well is kinda a different thing. It is built around density (both residential and office), with easy access points to street carts and upcoming Ontario Line. People doesn't even need to go there for the Well, they can go there for the bars and restaurants on King and ended up dropping by the Well.
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Don’t forget about The Well’s proximity to the Dome, making it popular with Blue Jays fans.
 
afransen said:
Good architecture is not a matter of seeing something once and saying "I'm good, never have to see this again".
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Exactly. Good architecture, urban design, landscaping, and finishes are factors that make people feel good about spending time in a place.

That's despite the fact that most people don't make architecture the driving factor in deciding where to buy a slice of pizza or skin cream. People are more likely to return to a retail area wanting that good feeling that quality design creates, resulting in an advantage for places that elicit that feeling effectively.
 
generalcanada said:
big article, key points:

- 3000 people per day to sweat and tonic
- 5700-8500 visitors daily specifically to the wellington market'
- 22k visitors daily to the development as a whole with 1 billion in economic value
- google is now an office tenant apperently
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Is this good??

Kidding of course it is. Great to see. Pretty clear weather has minimal impact to the success of this "mall"
 
DSCToronto said:
I do not think you can fairly compare the shops @ Aura with those @ The Well (or the two 'malls'). Aura has the advantage that it could have had lots of passing traffic IF the architect/developer had actually thought about how it was (and could be) linked to other adjacent underground areas and if the stores were rented/sold to different businesses. The Well has the drawback that it is 'stand-alone' but the benefit of a MUCH more thoughtful architect/developer and a range of stores and restaurants that should attract customers. For many reasons, Aura is rated a "fail' by many of us, The Well is clearly not a fail - though I will be interested in seeing how the stores & restaurants do over the next few years.
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This seems like a chicken or the egg dilemma though. Say that some attention seeking ignoramus south of the border to us decides sticks it to our economy out of pure spite and megalomania, causing all the shops here to up their prices so that it become untenable for most consumers to buy and purchase here...virtually turning this place into a ghost town. Would we still consider this still a /fail even though all evidence points to the success of every business here if our economy is left to it's own devices instead? If not, I really don't know what would constitute as success then.
 
generalcanada said:
big article, key points:

- 3000 people per day to sweat and tonic
- 5700-8500 visitors daily specifically to the wellington market'
- 22k visitors daily to the development as a whole with 1 billion in economic value
- google is now an office tenant apperently
Click to expand...
Such a pity that Stevedean is no longer around to marvel at the facts that he so desperately sought ;)
 
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