UtakataNoAnnex said:
You seem awfully confident in this when this government has demonstrated contempt of process in most other things when it comes to deals with the private sector. Not to mention, the summery list posted by generalcanada-san seems to have a lot of what ifs baked in it. But hey, don't let that rain on this parade, I guess...
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Thats me reading news articles 10 minutes after it got released, instead of nitpicking, try giving it some time, maybe read the lease yourself and the answers will clear up.

We dont need to know exactly how much the rent will be in 2045, a guideline is completely fine
 
generalcanada said:
Thats me reading news articles 10 minutes after it got released, instead of nitpicking, try giving it some time, maybe read the lease yourself and the answers will clear up.

We dont need to know exactly how much the rent will be in 2045, a guideline is completely fine
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I am being skeptical with an arrangement by a government that has given the public reasons to be skeptical of. So there is nothing wrong with that...

That being said though, I will always have open mind in case things do in fact go north with this...a broken watch tells the correct time twice a day, so we never know! But I am certainly not going to be holding my breath here, lol.
 
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generalcanada said:
globalnews.ca

Ford government releases Ontario Place lease, including rent and parking details | Globalnews.ca

Infrastructure Ontario published the lease it signed with Therme on Thursday, with the government touting the benefits it claims the deal will bring for taxpayers.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca
www.thetrillium.ca

Province estimates Therme will pay it $1.1B in direct revenue over 95-year Ontario Place lease

The province’s infrastructure agency released Therme’s lease of Ontario Place’s west island on Thursday
www.thetrillium.ca www.thetrillium.ca
Few more clarifying notes from the star, global, and trillium

- property taxes utilities and fees are owed to the city
- 1.1 bil in rent payments. So about 14 mil per year over 75 years
- 855 mil in "maintenance payments". This the part where Therme maintains the beaches and trails, I think. Its about 12 million per year
- combined to about 26 million per year
- rent is paid based on 3.5% of the land value, indexed to inflation starting in 2025 which amounts currently to 2 million. Little surprising theyre paying rent on the land when the spa isn't even built.
- Rent seems to ramp up after 2034 where its around $40 million a year
- total of 84 million per year between 2034 and 2044. Unclear if thats total or per year
- If Therme beats preformance expectations the government gets millions extra starting in 2034
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So all in all a lot better than what was there before where the province was subsidising Ontario Place even when they charged admittance.
 
The amount of trees taken down already is much more than I thought. The West Island is pretty much decimated.

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As I scrolled through Twitter/X, the videos coming out of an entire block of trees being clear-cut overnight in an undercover, mafia-like fashion made my blood boil. Straight out of the last century. How unbecoming of 2024, an era in which we should be well past this crude postwar mindset of unthinking fossil- and auto-centric urban ecocide. Ford Nation's handling of what was once a cultural crown jewel for so many children and families of this city and province has entered the realm of utter savagery and sadism.
 
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telefann said:
As I scrolled through Twitter/X, the videos coming out of an entire block of trees being clear-cut overnight in an undercover, mafia-like fashion made my blood boil. Straight out of the last century. How unbecoming of 2024, an era in which we should be well past this crude postwar mindset of unthinking fossil- and auto-centric urban ecocide. Ford Nation's handling of what was once a cultural crown jewel for so many children and families of this city and province has entered the realm of utter savagery and sadism.
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Calling them criminal is a bit too much. Courts have multiple times in this case called it absolutely legal and constitutional.
 
telefann said:
As I scrolled through Twitter/X, the videos coming out of an entire block of trees being clear-cut overnight in an undercover, mafia-like fashion made my blood boil. Straight out of the last century. How unbecoming of 2024, an era in which we should be well past this crude postwar mindset of unthinking fossil- and auto-centric urban ecocide. Ford Nation's handling of what was once a cultural crown jewel for so many children and families of this city and province has entered the realm of utter savagery and sadism.
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The good news for those who are lamenting about this once "cultural crown jewel for so many children and families" is that it's exactly what they are building here. A water park for middle class families, only this time the province is going to make money rather than lose it.
 
Profits and success are not guaranteed. Also, as poor Ontario Place has itself shown, nothing ages as fast as the future. Will the spa/waterpark even survive past a few decades in its newly built form?
Ford has been acting in bad faith this entire time - in secrecy, by force, through avaricious backroom connections. The financial projections are shaky at best, the squandered possibilities for public goodwill and a progressive park - limitless.
We've no choice now but to see what happens. I personally won't wish the project ill at this point, but it's a pain how we got here and it's too bad we didn't get better.
 
generalcanada said:
Courts have multiple times in this case called it absolutely legal and constitutional.
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All that says, is the government knew they could get away with this...which is really isn't all that flattering. So being vetted by the courts doesn't really make them on the right side of history here, it just makes what they're doing legal. Big difference.
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
All that says, is the government knew they could get away with this...which is really isn't all that flattering. So being vetted by the courts doesn't really make them on the right side of history here, it just makes what they're doing legal. Big difference.
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Moral vs legal are 2 different things that we agree, But the guy i was responding to was specifically talking ILLEGAL and Corrupt which is just straight not true.

If you wanna say the Ford government is on the wrong side of history, Sure whatever go ahead, but dont go too far.
 
generalcanada said:
Moral vs legal are 2 different things that we agree, But the guy i was responding to was specifically talking ILLEGAL and Corrupt which is just straight not true.

If you wanna say the Ford government is on the wrong side of history, Sure whatever go ahead, but dont go too far.
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I get that. But I just wanted to make sure that nuance was understood here as that's an easy one to conveniently overlook. Also see: Mike Duffy.
 
I went to Ontario Place as a child and with my family for a theme attractions around 2007-2009 and went to West Island for CIAS airshow in Summer 2021. What happened to West Island I’m disappointed of nature being destroyed thanks to Doug and his buddies.

It’s time to send Doug Ford to federal court for the greenbelt scandal, Ontario Science Centre, building new highways on a middle of farmland, and Ontario Place gone wrong. It’s time to send Doug to prison.

I will be voting for NDP in the next election not conservatives.
 
I remember going to Ontario Place as a kid. Blame Dalton McGuinty and the Liberals for letting it rot.

The same people criticizing the revitalization of Ontario Place will be the first ones to attend its opening.

There is a reason why Doug Ford's party is 40% in the polls.

The Ontario Liberals and NDP are basically the Trudeau Liberals. Bye.
 
And they're still "tied" State side...

...getting back on topic here, the Liberals are in many ways as culpable as the PCs in dealing with OP. However, they're not in power but the PCs are. And the onus of responsibility of setting things right and doing the right thing falls upon them, regardless where they are in the poles. The criticism here is they have not done so but instead doing things that will unlikely help it or preserve this place with any degree of dignity it so deserves. It's fixing the rot with the wrong kind of bandaids to put it mildly, IMO.
 
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