marcus_a_j said:
Was the building at the NW corner of Pape/Cosburn ever occupied? It was finished being built less than 3 years ago.
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Looking at Google Earth - you have to view it from Cosburn because the Google car hasn't been down Pape since 2019 - it looks like the 2 upper floors of apartments may have been occupied, but the ground floor business was probably not.
 
At the end of August, when I was walking along the sidewalk near the retaining wall/noise barrier, between Queen Street and Dundas Street, a GO Train passed by and it honestly sounded like there was no wall there at all.

I guess if they add those glass barriers on top of those barriers it might block a bit more sound?

It really didn't sound like there was any barrier there at all, I could hear the train loud and clear. So, I'm not sure what the neighbours think along that stretch. Maybe they are used to the GO Train but I can only imagine the GO train and the Ontario Line trains.

This wall was what I was walking past on a side street. It's pretty tall but the trains could be heard pretty easily.

20250831_101434.jpg
 
Yeah, it's a complete waste of time and money. And why the residents want to be living opposite a wall of graffiti I don't know. There houses were already devalued when they bought them. Staring at a graffiti wall all days, surely will devalue them further.
 
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GameOnBrad said:
At the end of August, when I was walking along the sidewalk near the retaining wall/noise barrier, between Queen Street and Dundas Street, a GO Train passed by and it honestly sounded like there was no wall there at all.

I guess if they add those glass barriers on top of those barriers it might block a bit more sound?

It really didn't sound like there was any barrier there at all, I could hear the train loud and clear. So, I'm not sure what the neighbours think along that stretch. Maybe they are used to the GO Train but I can only imagine the GO train and the Ontario Line trains.

This wall was what I was walking past on a side street. It's pretty tall but the trains could be heard pretty easily.

View attachment 680753
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Too bad Toronto (and Ontario) doesn't follow what Europe does with sound barriers....

Solar fences in Germany are cheaper than wood—and generate electricity too​

1757718284953.png

In parts of Germany, solar panels are being used not just on rooftops but also as vertical structures—fences, noise barriers, and even retaining walls—serving both as physical dividers and as energy generators. This dual-purpose approach is attracting growing interest, especially as material prices like wood and brick have risen in recent years.

Several German pilot projects and commercial products are demonstrating that vertical photovoltaic (PV) systems can offer competitive advantages not only in terms of clean energy production but also in cost-efficiency over time. When energy generation is factored into total cost of ownership, these solar fences can end up being cheaper than traditional materials.

Germany’s push into this area includes highway infrastructure. For example, a feasibility study by Drees & Sommer has shown that it is both technically and economically viable to install 24 megawatts of solar panels over 30 kilometers of embankments and sound barriers on the A44n and A46 highways near the Garzweiler coal mine. Nationally, experts estimate that up to 300 gigawatts of solar potential exists along Germany’s highways alone.

Meanwhile, research efforts are underway to improve the design and deployment of such structures. Fraunhofer ISE, in collaboration with R. Kohlhauer GmbH—a specialist in noise protection walls—is testing five different ways of integrating PV into noise barriers. The project, part of the PVwins initiative, aims to assess structural stability, safety, acoustic performance, and energy yield. A key feature in the design is that PV modules are mounted starting at 1.5 meters above ground level to avoid damage from debris, snow, or vandalism.

Residential and small-scale applications are also gaining popularity. Garden-friendly solar fences such as the “ZaunPV” kits from Green Akku are marketed as plug-and-play systems. These kits can be mounted vertically in backyards, often facing east or west to capture morning and evening sunlight. Due to their upright orientation, they perform well during winter months by avoiding snow buildup and better capturing low-angle sunlight—an area where traditional rooftop panels may struggle.

Green Akku’s ZaunPV kit, for instance, includes a 335-watt module and a microinverter, with pricing starting at €416.81 (excluding taxes). The systems can be connected to home circuits using a standard Schuko plug, and generally do not require special permits, making them attractive to homeowners looking for a low-barrier entry into solar power.

For larger-scale installations, Next2Sun offers configurable solar fence systems with vertical bifacial panels designed to capture light from both sides. These are often deployed in agricultural settings or as property boundaries, and pricing tools are available online to estimate system costs based on specific project dimensions.

While these solar fences aren’t replacing all conventional building materials yet, they are gaining traction in Germany due to their ability to make better use of vertical surfaces, especially in areas where land availability is limited or expensive. The concept has also started to spread to other countries, including Austria, the Netherlands, and parts of the United States.

Germany’s use of solar fences represents a practical approach to integrating clean energy with everyday infrastructure. With ongoing pilots and commercial interest, this model could play a growing role in both urban and rural energy strategies.
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Of course some of that electricity generated could end up powering the electric trains on the Ontario Line 3.
 
GameOnBrad said:
At the end of August, when I was walking along the sidewalk near the retaining wall/noise barrier, between Queen Street and Dundas Street, a GO Train passed by and it honestly sounded like there was no wall there at all.

I guess if they add those glass barriers on top of those barriers it might block a bit more sound?

It really didn't sound like there was any barrier there at all, I could hear the train loud and clear. So, I'm not sure what the neighbours think along that stretch. Maybe they are used to the GO Train but I can only imagine the GO train and the Ontario Line trains.

This wall was what I was walking past on a side street. It's pretty tall but the trains could be heard pretty easily.

View attachment 680753
Click to expand...
This isn’t a sound wall, this is a T-wall / retaining wall. The trains run above these walls so locomotive sounds are diffracting right over the walls to your position.

The sound walls (if built) go above these walls. General idea is roughly captured by this diagram (source).
IMG_4273.jpeg


Not saying how effective these ML ones will be but in theory they *can* dampen a lot of noise.

Also for the record the trains are only getting slightly closer to the homes that were already exposed to the noise pre-expansion.
 
GameOnBrad said:
At the end of August, when I was walking along the sidewalk near the retaining wall/noise barrier, between Queen Street and Dundas Street, a GO Train passed by and it honestly sounded like there was no wall there at all.

I guess if they add those glass barriers on top of those barriers it might block a bit more sound?

It really didn't sound like there was any barrier there at all, I could hear the train loud and clear. So, I'm not sure what the neighbours think along that stretch. Maybe they are used to the GO Train but I can only imagine the GO train and the Ontario Line trains.

This wall was what I was walking past on a side street. It's pretty tall but the trains could be heard pretty easily.

View attachment 680753
Click to expand...
What you walked past is the new raised berm's retaining structure. It's formed from a series of interlocking pre-cast concrete T-walls to hold the now widened and raised corridor in place. On top of this structure they will be installing the new sound barriers which hopefully dampen the noise from the higher frequency trains using the corridor in the future.
 
GameOnBrad said:
At the end of August, when I was walking along the sidewalk near the retaining wall/noise barrier, between Queen Street and Dundas Street, a GO Train passed by and it honestly sounded like there was no wall there at all.

I guess if they add those glass barriers on top of those barriers it might block a bit more sound?

It really didn't sound like there was any barrier there at all, I could hear the train loud and clear. So, I'm not sure what the neighbours think along that stretch. Maybe they are used to the GO Train but I can only imagine the GO train and the Ontario Line trains.

This wall was what I was walking past on a side street. It's pretty tall but the trains could be heard pretty easily.

View attachment 680753
Click to expand...
The only way to soundproof a train line, is to completely enclose it. This reminds me of the Castle Frank bridge. Immediately west of Castle Frank Station, the Danforth subway originally ran above-ground over an open bridge, and it wasn't a problem because the area was remote, with few if any houses. Shortly after the line opened, houses were built, and residents complained that they could hear the subway. So the open bridge was surrounded in a concrete tube, except for open squares along the top which were like skylights, but without glass. This solution was acceptable for 30 years, then taller houses and apartment buildings were built beside the line, overlooking the openings along the top, and residents complained that they could hear the subway again. So they filled in the holes, and now it just looks like an ordinary subway tunnel when your train passes through it, with no hint that it's running above ground.
 
Mihairokov said:
This highlights a larger problem in that SFHs with garages and driveways are within a stone's throw of a central urban subway station. They don't use the station and yet are still able to dictate how the line is run.
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But I have nothing against compromise. If transit is being run in a way that drives residents crazy, something should be done to make it better. I was speaking of a situation where the subway was there first and the houses came later, but that doesn't mean the homeowners can't ask for peace and quiet. So yeah, if I lived in a neighbourhood where a train station was making too much noise, even if I don't use public transit, I'd still be justified in asking for noise reduction, because it's my neighbourhood.
 
A 6264 said:
But I have nothing against compromise. If transit is being run in a way that drives residents crazy, something should be done to make it better. I was speaking of a situation where the subway was there first and the houses came later, but that doesn't mean the homeowners can't ask for peace and quiet. So yeah, if I lived in a neighbourhood where a train station was making too much noise, even if I don't use public transit, I'd still be justified in asking for noise reduction, because it's my neighbourhood.
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Yet in China, they build elevated trains that run through and have stations INSIDE residential buildings...
1757773364129.png

From https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1863079/china-train-through-building-chongqing-liziba-train-station-pictures

To help isolate the "noise", there is a station inside that building. With platform doors.
1757773515119.png
 
A 6264 said:
But I have nothing against compromise. If transit is being run in a way that drives residents crazy, something should be done to make it better.
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Residents shouldn't live in a city if they don't like noise. There are plenty of far-flung suburbs that are quiet at night. I used to live within earshot of Broadview Station and the screeching from the streetcars was pretty constant, as was the constant noise from the Danforth, but I understood that that was a trade-off of living in a central location.

Of course TTC can make efforts to mitigate noise from its operations for nearby residents and users, but I don't have a very large violin for people who live in central areas who don't like noise from daily operational things like subways or emergency vehicles. I can understand construction noise to a degree.

To Monarch's point above, Chinese cities are like the final boss of overstimulation, and if a billion people can live being surrounded by city noise at all times I think the folks in the nice houses near Castle Frank can make do, too.
 
A 6264 said:
So yeah, if I lived in a neighbourhood where a train station was making too much noise, even if I don't use public transit, I'd still be justified in asking for noise reduction, because it's my neighbourhood.
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One possible solution would be to not move to an area with trains running through it.
 
I used to live right next to the Go Train tracks in Parkdale, and if your windows were open - boy, was it bananas! If I forgot and left my windows open over night, I'd often be woken up by what I thought was a train crashing into my face.

With the windows closed, it was fine.

It seems odd to complain about noise from train tracks considering the tracks have been in Toronto longer than any of us have been.
 
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