evandyk
Senior Member
They would just dress a bus up as a trolley.
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- Thread starter themarc
- Start date
Towered
Superstar
Then use a modern one made up to look vintage? Doesn't seem that complicated, but I'm just imagining here.
crs1026
Superstar
That's what one would do. i'm sure people (other than transit purists here on UT maybe) would be fine with it.
The issue is, capacity and maintenance infrastructure. It's one thing to run a museum that runs on defined days and offers only the capacity that their attendance requires. It's another to run a service 7 days a week with an inherent promise to meet demand.
The GO/Wego service to Niagara is a good example of what can go wrong when you drop large numbers of people into a distribution network that is much more constrained. An Island trolley service would likely have to deliver at least half-hourly headway from 9 AM to 11 PM.... possibly much more. The arriving load queuing after arriving on one ferry would overwhelm the service. As would the crush when a thunderstorm rolls in and people are desperate for shelter.
The shop and mechanical force needed to keep that many vehicles on the road would be substantial, would need a spare parts inventory and full-time mechanical presence. Would the maintainers and operators be volunteers or paid employees? (I would venture, the latter)
Insurance and liability would be a thorny one. Likely the City would have to backstop a service that is offered to the public as similar to TTC or GO (next time you go to an operating rail or transit museum, read the fine print on the back of your ticket).
Lastly, what would one charge as a fare? Many would expect it to be affordable, especially in the context of a family with grandparents and kids all out for a day.
A museum on the Island charging a substantial fare and thus limiting ridership to those willing to pay, might be sustainable on pure economics. But the tension between whether it's there to be transportation infrastructure for all or just a privately operated attraction would generate a lot of debate, I'm sure.
- Paul
dowlingm
Senior Member
If we want to have transit vehicles on the islands that are electric, not a lot of use elsewhere, and soon to be an anachronism that will draw transit fans but not much love otherwise, I suggest transferring the TTC’s Proterra fleet to PF&R and let them contract with someone else to maintain them in a depot on the airport lands. There can be a competition in the city primary schools to come up with a jaunty livery, and then they can all be wrapped with Pizza Pizza advertising anyway.
evandyk
Senior Member
Just get a fleet of these.
Or this, already in use in Canada.
Or this, already in use in Canada.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Yeah but that doesn’t promote my hater agenda to get Proterra and/or BYD off the TTC fleet list so…Just get a fleet of these.
Or this, already in use in Canada.
PL1
Senior Member
Not sure this is the best place to drop this. Apparently the Toronto Ferries will not be taking vehicles to Wards Island as of November 12. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/to...cle_4db87efc-a038-11ef-a18a-5f3e894b9048.html
DSCToronto
Superstar
At Council today:
Ward: 10 - Spadina - Fort York
Attention
* This Motion has been deemed urgent by the Chair.
* This Motion is not subject to a vote to waive referral. This Motion has been added to the agenda and is before Council for debate.
1. City Council authorize the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, to negotiate and enter into licence agreements with private water taxi operators to allow operators to dock at designated locations at Toronto Island Park, for annual terms at market rates based on the existing published rate card with any inflationary or other justified rate adjustments, for the next five years (2025 to 2029), on terms and conditions acceptable to the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, and in a form acceptable to the City Solicitor.
2. City Council direct the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, to undertake discussions with private water taxi operators to understand any barriers related to maximizing water taxi service to and from Toronto Island Park, and to explore options for maximizing water taxi services to and from Toronto Island Park, with any outcomes of those discussions subject to future Council consideration, including any budget requirements.
attracting approximately 1.4 million visitors each year. It is also home to Island residents and
many businesses including marinas, yacht clubs and attractions.
For several years, in addition to the City’s ferry services, privately operated water taxis have
provided passenger transportation services to and from Toronto Island Park. In 2024, five
operators with a total of 53 boats were granted licences to dock at Toronto Island Park
locations. In 2023 (last year available), water taxis transported an estimated 486,066 passengers according to an operator survey conducted by the Waterfront BIA.
Licences are issued annually, expiring each year. Licence opportunities are advertised publicly on the City’s website as business opportunities and are open to any supplier who meets the qualifications. The licence is for use of the City’s docking locations on Toronto Island Park. Licence holders are responsible for securing mainland-side docking locations and infrastructure, and meeting Transport Canada regulations for water taxi service. Licence fees are based on market rates and advertised publicly.
With the growth in demand for water taxi services, the authority to grant licences has exceeded Parks, Forestry and Recreation’s delegated authority under Municipal Code 608 to issue licences. We are recommending Executive Committee adopt a motion to provide the necessary authority, for the next five years, to issue annual licences to qualified water taxi operators. We are bringing the recommendation forward now to ensure a smooth start to the 2025 season in May.
Meanwhile, the City is acquiring two new higher-capacity ferries, currently under construction, to meet increased demand for visiting Toronto Island Park. They are expected to be delivered in late 2026 and early 2027. Prior to the arrival of the new ferries, Parks, Forestry and Recreation has been investing in ways to improve the ferry passenger experience, including improvements and upgrades in 2024, as well as responding to my motion GG14.8 passed at the July 24 and 25, 2024, meeting of City Council. That motion requested the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, to explore opportunities to lease or otherwise retain relief vessels to provide additional service to and from Toronto Island while the new ferries are being procured.
As part of this effort, we are recommending Executive Committee also adopt a motion to give further direction to the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, to undertake
discussions with water taxi operators to understand any barriers related to maximizing water
taxi service to and from Toronto Island Park and to explore options for maximizing water taxi
service. Any outcomes from those discussions would be subject to future Council consideration, including any budget requirements.
MM24.39 - Enhanced Water Taxi Access to Toronto Island - by Mayor Olivia Chow, seconded by Deputy Mayor Ausma Malik
Motion without NoticeWard: 10 - Spadina - Fort York
Attention
* This Motion has been deemed urgent by the Chair.
* This Motion is not subject to a vote to waive referral. This Motion has been added to the agenda and is before Council for debate.
Recommendations
Mayor Olivia Chow, seconded by Deputy Mayor Ausma Malik, recommends that:1. City Council authorize the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, to negotiate and enter into licence agreements with private water taxi operators to allow operators to dock at designated locations at Toronto Island Park, for annual terms at market rates based on the existing published rate card with any inflationary or other justified rate adjustments, for the next five years (2025 to 2029), on terms and conditions acceptable to the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, and in a form acceptable to the City Solicitor.
2. City Council direct the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, to undertake discussions with private water taxi operators to understand any barriers related to maximizing water taxi service to and from Toronto Island Park, and to explore options for maximizing water taxi services to and from Toronto Island Park, with any outcomes of those discussions subject to future Council consideration, including any budget requirements.
Summary
Toronto Island Park is one of Toronto’s top destinations, especially in the summer months,attracting approximately 1.4 million visitors each year. It is also home to Island residents and
many businesses including marinas, yacht clubs and attractions.
For several years, in addition to the City’s ferry services, privately operated water taxis have
provided passenger transportation services to and from Toronto Island Park. In 2024, five
operators with a total of 53 boats were granted licences to dock at Toronto Island Park
locations. In 2023 (last year available), water taxis transported an estimated 486,066 passengers according to an operator survey conducted by the Waterfront BIA.
Licences are issued annually, expiring each year. Licence opportunities are advertised publicly on the City’s website as business opportunities and are open to any supplier who meets the qualifications. The licence is for use of the City’s docking locations on Toronto Island Park. Licence holders are responsible for securing mainland-side docking locations and infrastructure, and meeting Transport Canada regulations for water taxi service. Licence fees are based on market rates and advertised publicly.
With the growth in demand for water taxi services, the authority to grant licences has exceeded Parks, Forestry and Recreation’s delegated authority under Municipal Code 608 to issue licences. We are recommending Executive Committee adopt a motion to provide the necessary authority, for the next five years, to issue annual licences to qualified water taxi operators. We are bringing the recommendation forward now to ensure a smooth start to the 2025 season in May.
Meanwhile, the City is acquiring two new higher-capacity ferries, currently under construction, to meet increased demand for visiting Toronto Island Park. They are expected to be delivered in late 2026 and early 2027. Prior to the arrival of the new ferries, Parks, Forestry and Recreation has been investing in ways to improve the ferry passenger experience, including improvements and upgrades in 2024, as well as responding to my motion GG14.8 passed at the July 24 and 25, 2024, meeting of City Council. That motion requested the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, to explore opportunities to lease or otherwise retain relief vessels to provide additional service to and from Toronto Island while the new ferries are being procured.
As part of this effort, we are recommending Executive Committee also adopt a motion to give further direction to the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, to undertake
discussions with water taxi operators to understand any barriers related to maximizing water
taxi service to and from Toronto Island Park and to explore options for maximizing water taxi
service. Any outcomes from those discussions would be subject to future Council consideration, including any budget requirements.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I'm here in Hong Kong today - my photo below. It's my fifth or sixth visit here since 2001, and I always go straight to the ferry. It's so iconic I even have a model Star Ferry on my book shelf at home.
Rather than replace them with a bridge, Toronto should make the island ferries a greater part of our city's brand. I also like the double decker side load and offloading that gets people and the vessels rotating through their trips much faster than the single dropping bow door, akin to the opening scene in Saving Private Ryan that Toronto uses.
Rather than replace them with a bridge, Toronto should make the island ferries a greater part of our city's brand. I also like the double decker side load and offloading that gets people and the vessels rotating through their trips much faster than the single dropping bow door, akin to the opening scene in Saving Private Ryan that Toronto uses.
Natika33
Active Member
Love the idea of an iconic Toronto ferry design!
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Exactly, imagine a website like this for Toronto's ferries, where instead of bemoaning them, we celebrate. But first we need fast boarding/unboarding ferries.
Sailing icon: Hong Kong’s Star Ferry | Hong Kong Tourism Board
Throughout Hong Kong’s history, the city’s advance has been etched into the singular skylines that have grown on both sides of Victoria Harbour. As gleaming towers rose like phoenixes from the memories of historical architecture, there has been one constant – the Star Ferry – which has voyaged...
www.discoverhongkong.com
The World’s Best Ferry Rides - LUXE City Guides
From meandering canals to bustling rivers, the waterways in Venice, Istanbul, Hong Kong, Sydney, New York and Bangkok are some of the most sailed and storied to be found globally. And what makes them all the more cruiseable? Why, the beloved vessels bobbing atop, of course. Give tired trotters a...
luxecityguides.com
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ProjectEnd
Superstar
Star Ferry is a cute but ailing anachronism. Good piece in HKFP about how it could be fixed and better integrated into HK's public transit quiver: https://hongkongfp.com/2022/04/18/a...ongs-decrepit-star-ferry-heres-how-to-fix-it/
Admiral Beez
Superstar
That's a strange article, leading with "improbably in 2022, all-male crews". Presumably if your ferry crew isn't DEI driven you're a dinosaur.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Restricting employment based on sex / gender is "DEI"?
nfitz
Superstar
The reference was to the kitchen/restaurant staff being all male. I can see that long-standing prejudices and discrimination might lead to all-male operators, etc. But that does seem odd even in such circumstances.
Do they even have food services on Toronto ferries? I can't say I've ever ventured too far from the edge of the railings, and can't recall ever travelling in poor weather. It's cetainly ubiquitous on longer ferry services world-wide - in my experience.