[ssiguy2]

Read a new article in The Star and I nearly fainted.
Seems that the tiny 6km renewal of the SRT is going to cost a whopping $1.2 billion. I was thinking more along the lines of $100 million tops. How in hell can Vancouver build a brand new 11 km SkyTrain line {including a one km tunnel} in 3 years for $1.4 billion and it will take $1.2 billion just to put in new treack and overhead lines. The ROW is already there as are the most expensive cost, the stations. Also how in hell does it take 3 years to put down new track? ULTRA-low wage Calgary is building it's new 8km West LRT for $800 million in 3 years which includes an underground station and a large elevated section.
Things like this make me think no money should be given to Toronto for transit expansion until they bring their costs down to earth.

 

[nfitz]

Enough with the absolutely other the top hysteria here.

$100 million?? How would you even pay for the new vehicles for $100 million?

The elevated structure is already about 30-years old, and will be almost 40 by the time the LRT opens. The lifespan of such structures is about 30-40 years, so presumably there will be some big-time maintenance at the same time.

And you think that you could buy the vehicles, rebuild the entire thing, expand all the stations, and build the new underground station at Kennedy for $100 million? Really? No one is that naive ... your trolling us.

If such stuff brings you to such a dangerous medical condition, perhaps you should not be here. But my money is that you are actually not telling the truth about your medical crisis.

 

[gweed123]

I think you have added too many GO stations but overall I agree. Exhibition there should be a stop for tho since a few lines pass it.

I don't think there is too many. Look at the S-Bahn in Berlin. Through most of downtown Berlin and the immediate surrounding area the stations are around 1.5km apart. Many of the stop spacings that I'm proposing are just as much as that, if not more.

It's only in the suburban areas that you need 3+km stop spacing in order to have an effective line. The closer you get to downtown, the more accessibility becomes important, so the closer you need the stops to be together.

 

[Filip]

Absolutely any electrification should include additional stations. With electrification the acceleration and decceleration of the vehicles is much faster, which allows you to place stops closer together. Infill stations could include:

Lakeshore: Roncesvalles, City Place (Spadina/Rogers Centre), Cherry, Queen/Dundas
Milton-Stouffville (I see them as being 1 through-line): Jane, Liberty Village, City Place, Cherry
Georgetown-Richmond Hill: Eglinton-Black Creek, St. Clair West, Liberty, City Place, Cherry, Milwood, Eglinton East, York Mills, Leslie-Sheppard (relocated Oriole)
Barrie: Wilson, Eglinton, Dupont, Liberty, City Place

You forgot a key station on the Lakeshore Line: Park Lawn/Humber Bay. That area with downtown densities needs higher order transit pronto.

 

[gweed123]

You forgot a key station on the Lakeshore Line: Park Lawn/Humber Bay. That area with downtown densities needs higher order transit pronto.

That would make sense too, thanks.

 

[sixrings]

I guess my objection to so many stops is mostly because I think the 905 would freak out resulting in NOTHING getting built in TORONTO. Toronto has gotten scraps where GO is concerned and although it justifiably needs more stops, I would hate any proposal be so big that in the end nothing gets built.

 

[ssiguy2]

I wasn't including the trains but 50 new trains is only $150,000,000.
Why aren't they just upgrading the SRT to handle the MK11......they wouldn't have to shut down the tracks very long and the maintneance /garage/control centre is already there.
And how in hell does it take 3 years?

 

[Paleo]

I wasn't including the trains but 50 new trains is only $150,000,000.
Why aren't they just upgrading the SRT to handle the MK11......they wouldn't have to shut down the tracks very long and the maintneance /garage/control centre is already there.
And how in hell does it take 3 years?

They are rebuilding the entire trackbed, rebuilding the tunnel that goes under the GO line, rebuilding all of the stations to handle larger trains, and doing a serious rearrangement at Kennedy.

 

[gweed123]

I guess my objection to so many stops is mostly because I think the 905 would freak out resulting in NOTHING getting built in TORONTO. Toronto has gotten scraps where GO is concerned and although it justifiably needs more stops, I would hate any proposal be so big that in the end nothing gets built.

I don't think the 905 would freak out over a few extra stops in Toronto, especially if they're located at places where they intersect rapid transit lines. I think that most 905ers would look no further than "5 minute peak service, 15 minute off peak", and that would sell them on it. Adding a few extra stops adds a couple minutes to the trip time, if that.

 

[accura407]

They are rebuilding the entire trackbed, rebuilding the tunnel that goes under the GO line, rebuilding all of the stations to handle larger trains, and doing a serious rearrangement at Kennedy.

Do they really have to rip out the entire track bed and then rebuild it again? I understand the approach to the stations need to be redone because it is low-floor LRT but the entire line really? Its all standard guage...

I would think all that's necessary is...

* rebuild track near stations
* lengthen platforms of each station
* remove everything else from the track except the track itself (ALRT equipment)
* insert pantograph poles
* rebuild Kennedy station
* rebuild tunnel under Stoufville Line

Does that take 3 YEARS to do? Really?

I think Metrolinx is just finding excuses to blow through extra funds with this one because ripping out the entire length and re-doing it sounds like pure waste.

 

[sixrings]

WHat motivation would metrolinx have for taking longer time and costing more to redo the SRT????????? What you are suggesting doesnt make any sense. Why wouldnt they want to go faster and save more money? What benefit is it to them to cost more? Wouldnt it help metrolinx to save as much as they can so that they could get the Eglinton line either farther east to Malvern or farther West to the airport? If they run out of money they will simply be begging for extra funds. I cant believe thats a enviably position to be in.

 

[smallspy]

Why aren't they just upgrading the SRT to handle the MK11......they wouldn't have to shut down the tracks very long and the maintneance /garage/control centre is already there.
And how in hell does it take 3 years?

McCowan Yard would have to be rebuilt and enlarged to handle the Mk2 cars, a new Kennedy Station would have to be built, and all of the stations would have to be lengthened. If you're doing that, why not spend the extra minimal amount and make the line compatible with other rolling stock that you have running instead of keeping it isolated and different?

3 years is for all of the work to be done, including preparatory construction such as building the temporary bus terminals. The actual shutdown will be somewhat less.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

* lengthen platforms of each station

Not just lengthen. The LRT uses low-floor vehicles. The current platforms are high floor. You'd have to remove the existing platforms entirely, which likely creates structural issues ... or elevate the track. I'd think this would be more expensive and more complex than just building a new station from scratch.

* remove everything else from the track except the track itself (ALRT equipment)

By the time the SRT re-opens, the track will be 40 years old. You'd want to remove that as well.

 

[SlickFranky]

I don't know why anyone is debating this. Experts did actually analyze the two options....

 

[kEiThZ]

The more and more I think about it, the more I feel that municipal transit expansion at this point should take a back seat to the electrification of the GO network. The $950 million for the SELRT and the $1.4 billion for the FWLRT could have gone much further if it was put towards electrification. Electrified GO lines running 15 minute headways off peak and 5 minute headways on peak would do way more for Toronto (and the GTA as a whole), then a few supplementary LRT lines would.

Fully agree. I have always seen this as a far bigger hole than our subway/lrt gaps. And this is also exactly why I believe that the GO rail and subway networks should come under a single authority.

It makes no sense for example to spend billions trying to get LRT to Malvern when a GO station and regular GO Rail service connecting to the subway network, along with better bus service would serve Malvernites so much better. Transit should be configured to have local buses get riders to their nearest subway/GO rail station (for the most part). And have that station as the focal point of the community. That's kinda how the S-bahn works.

It's too bad Metrolinx never looked at this. Instead we have money being thrown at a laundry list of projects that often are justified on their socio-economic impacts than their impacts on mobility.