micheal_can
Senior Member
Can someone tell me what the differences between the EC and the streetcar system are? As far as I can tell, they are virtually the same, except for rail gauge and cars used.
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
It’s has its own protected lane, signal priority at all intersections, higher vehicle capacity, lower stop spacing, and will operate on the surface about twice as fast as downtown streetcars.
micheal_can
Senior Member
So, what is the difference between Spadina, Queen's Quay and St Clair?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
They don’t have signal priority at all intersections, significantly lower vehicle capacity, more frequent stop spacing and operate about half as fast as the Crosstown LRT (about 22 km/h vs 11)
robmausser
Senior Member
Also, the streetcars downtown are "stop on demand" with much closer stops, much like a bus on rails. The LRT will operate more like a subway. Further spacing of stops, (even more so underground) plus they are mandatory stops.
The LRT will also operate with 2 LRT trains linked together (with an option of 3 when demand gets higher) for a much larger capacity, with only one driver.
This makes it a mix between subway and streetcar.
Streetcar-like:
-LRV style vehicles
-No signaling system
-Above ground in areas in median of road (like Spadina streetcar)
Subway-like:
-Traffic signal priority (very few and short stops for lights)
-Faster than streetcars, more like subway speed
-Longer trains coupled together (with 3 trains coupled together one train will have 500 people crush capacity)
-underground in dense areas
-mandatory stops further spaced apart (500-1km)
-all door boarding and pay fare at station, not on LRV
micheal_can
Senior Member
And that is why I am confused.
For the stops, couldn't one argue that the Streetcars are noting more than a LRT with on demand stops?
If they changed the signalling priority on the Streetcars, could that make them more like an LRT?
Yes, I can see the clear difference between a Streetcar line and a Subway line. But the LRT mess is the confusing part.
adrianaliu
Active Member
is it confirmed that signal priority will be at all intersections??? i heard something about them cancelling that for finch west and i assumed it would be the same for eglinton
Amare
Senior Member
No confirmation yet, it will be up to Toronto Transportation Services on whether they implement it or not.
crs1026
Superstar
If you go back to the traffic studies in the EA - the modelling suggested that the probability of an LRV getting a green light, allowing it to enter the intersection without decelerating, was only between 23-35% for the major intersections west of Jane. This is one of the issues that drives one to look for grade separation. With the proposed U turn lanes, one passage requires three green lights. There has been little promIsed in terms of traffic priority for Eglinton West.
- Paul
- Paul
robmausser
Senior Member
Not really. There are some things you are missing still.
Such as the fact that the stations for the streetcars are too close together. And that most operate in mixed traffic.
For those that don't, like Spadina, you'd have to remove half the stations. But you still aren't there yet.
You can't couple the streetcars together. So say you replace the trains with ones that can, but now you have to rebuild the stops to accommodate the longer trains.
Not quite there yet. We need to implement traffic priority.
Ok we have, but still one problem. The rails aren't designed for the same speeds. Ok we need to rip up the rails and re-lay rails that can operate at a faster speed.
By this time, we've completely replaced the streetcar system with something new.
LRT is a halfway point between subways and streetcars.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
The longest tram in the world is at 56m with 12 sections, in Budapest.
Note the grass on the right-of-ways. Forbidden by Toronto, apparently, by EMS and fire. We'll see if they allow grass on the Crosstown LRT or not.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
So long as it doesn’t stop at red lights that are not stops.
robmausser
Senior Member
Technically not one car, but coupling 3 Flexity Freedom LRTs on the Crosstown would be longer than this still.
It will certainly be a sight to be seen, just like the 12 car GO trains, which I call towns on rails.
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micheal_can
Senior Member
Could they do that with the Flexity Outlooks?
robmausser
Senior Member
The Flexity Outlooks on the streetcar system don't currently have a way to connect with each other in normal operations mode. Only for shunting around one streetcar with another. Meaning they aren't linked so a driver can open the doors of the back one etc.
It could be modified yes. But they are already so long, and we would have to modify the platforms at stations to fit them.
It would only be a good idea on the Spadina and Harbourfront Line. In mixed traffic it would be a nightmare, and the St.Clair line doesnt have the ridership.
With the close stop arrangement of the streetcar system, it would be best just to operate more independent streetcars at higher frequencies.