Wrenkin
Active Member
Don't be clever. How many people believe in Thor?
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Don't be clever. How many people believe in Thor?
DKsan
Active Member
There are neo-pagans in the GTA, I'm sure there are Asatruar among them.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Criss and Cross sound best.
Don and Humber would be misleading, as we don't expect the line to be tunneled under those rivers. Unless those TBMs can build bridges as well ...
Don and Humber would be misleading, as we don't expect the line to be tunneled under those rivers. Unless those TBMs can build bridges as well ...
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Xiaohaha
New Member
Thor promised the end of ice giants. I don't see any ice giants around today. My life for Thor.
car4041
Active Member
Even Dennis and Lea? I think that one is really clever, as it references the neighbourhoods where the two tunnel portals will be located (Mount Dennis and Leaside).
regionalArchitects
New Member
The City has just launched their parallel study (which we are part of) that will look at the entire Eglinton corridor. This study will focus on the built form and streetscape that will come with the new LRT. There's quite a bit of information up on the City's project website already (including a survey). There's also a large public kick-off event November 28th at North Toronto Collegiate featuring Antoine Grumbach (of the Paris Tramway fame).
MODS - not sure if this needs a separate thread (as its quite apart from transit and infrastructure), but it does seem to make sense to keep it all integrated. I'll leave it up to you.
MODS - not sure if this needs a separate thread (as its quite apart from transit and infrastructure), but it does seem to make sense to keep it all integrated. I'll leave it up to you.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I think the 2 tunneling machines should reflect the transit agency. They should reflect the citizens confidence in Metrolinx building it on time and on budget.
With that in mind how about "Fat and Chance"....."Good and Luck"...."April and Fools"..."Just and Kidding"...."What and Budget".
With that in mind how about "Fat and Chance"....."Good and Luck"...."April and Fools"..."Just and Kidding"...."What and Budget".
BurlOak
Senior Member
Three things I have thought about regarding ECLRT.
1. How can they award the contract for tunnelling when they have not decided what to do with the fill? I assume the General Contractor will have to do the tunnelling, lining and removal of fill. I guess none of those fancy plans are in consideration (fill in Allen, Islands in Humber) and the contractor will have to haul it outside of Toronto.
2. The cost of the extension to YYZ seems rather expensive. According to the One City plan – which the TTC Chair was involved with so I imagine may be somewhat accurate – the cost is $1.9B for 11 km ($170M/km). This is for a line that is 70% in the median and 30% elevated. The Canada Line in Vancouver was $110M/km (maybe $140M including inflation) for a line that was 60% buried and 40% elevated. Is that large cost all related to the station at YYZ?
3. The costs of the interchange stations seem very high since they are built under the existing subway lines. Maybe is would save money if a station was built immediately West of Yonge/Eglinton and another one immediately East of it. Passengers could go to the one terminal station and transfer by walking through the mezzanine level of the existing Yonge/Eglinton station to the other terminal station to continue their crosstown trip. In reality, most will probably transfer to the subway. This could be repeated at Eglinton West and Kennedy.
1. How can they award the contract for tunnelling when they have not decided what to do with the fill? I assume the General Contractor will have to do the tunnelling, lining and removal of fill. I guess none of those fancy plans are in consideration (fill in Allen, Islands in Humber) and the contractor will have to haul it outside of Toronto.
2. The cost of the extension to YYZ seems rather expensive. According to the One City plan – which the TTC Chair was involved with so I imagine may be somewhat accurate – the cost is $1.9B for 11 km ($170M/km). This is for a line that is 70% in the median and 30% elevated. The Canada Line in Vancouver was $110M/km (maybe $140M including inflation) for a line that was 60% buried and 40% elevated. Is that large cost all related to the station at YYZ?
3. The costs of the interchange stations seem very high since they are built under the existing subway lines. Maybe is would save money if a station was built immediately West of Yonge/Eglinton and another one immediately East of it. Passengers could go to the one terminal station and transfer by walking through the mezzanine level of the existing Yonge/Eglinton station to the other terminal station to continue their crosstown trip. In reality, most will probably transfer to the subway. This could be repeated at Eglinton West and Kennedy.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
That fill is mostly "clean" fill. Not dirt from contaminated industrial land, but several metres UNDER the roadway. It can be reused, even for aggregate to be mixed with, for concrete for the lining of the tunnels. There used to be several quarries or sand pits along or near Eglinton Avenue before development pushed them out.
Dirt closer to the asphalt roadway is what we have to worry about contamination. Dirt near the surface or the slopes and raised roadway along Eglinton Flats or other built-up slopes maybe has contaminated dirt they have to worry about. Eglinton Flats (not the current roadways) used to be garden farms.
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smallspy
Senior Member
Spoil is always the responsibility of the contractor. They will have to test it to ensure that it is clean (depending on groundwater conditions contaminants can travel pretty significant distances underground), filter it to remove larger contaminants (slurry walls for the stations excavations), etc.
As for where to dump it, there are several locations in the City that the contractor can use should they choose. It all comes down to cost.
As has been said here and elsewhere many times before, you can't compare the construction situation elsewhere to what happens in Toronto. The variables are inevitably different. It may cost more to build something here than in Vancouver, but it is a veritable bargain compared to some places like New York or London.
And what would reconfiguring the interchanges to what you propose do to the passenger flows? Would fewer people transfer? Would the lines be loaded differently? All these things have to be taken into account.
And in any case, I don't know if it would change the costs greatly, because you still have to build underneath the existing lines in any case. You still need to dig them out, brace them, etc.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
cassius
Active Member
I should point out that "Dennis and Lea" was also submitted by a UT forum member, though I haven't seen him around these parts in some time.
diminutive
Active Member
NYC's SAS costs are astronomical and highly anomalous by any standards. Even London's Crossrail, which involves several highly complex transfers underneath Central London works out to just under 200m/km in CAD. So, yea, if the starting point for an LRT running down the median of a this is ballpark to a system which has to tunnel through London, there is something odd. And, presumably, this extension wouldn't even need cost drivers like a new operations/maintenance center.
I get that people should be cautious comparing projects since no two circumstances are the same, but circumstances aren't *that* dissimilar either. There are cities with more expensive labor, more challenging interchanges, denser urban fabrics and more challenging geology that manage to seemingly control costs more efficiently than us.
rbt
Senior Member
Careful with price comparisons for this one. A majority of the Crossrail corridor existed and was government owned before the project was created; much of it already had track. Much of the route is above ground.
Then you get pieces like the $1.7B ($CAD) Tottenham Court Road station (single station) with changes that extend well beyond the necessities of the Crosrail project.
Adjusting costs for the CrossRail to compare them to other projects is not a minor project.
CrossRail is closer to electrification of the Lake Shore East/West GO line with a tunnel from Bathurst to Jarvis combined with a major rebuild of Union Station.
sixrings
Senior Member
outside eglinton west is the new flexy streetcars... lrvs... or are they the lrts?
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
^Good question. Outside of Adelaide, Australia, I don't think Flexitys are used anywhere outside of Europe. Most of the systems that use them are German and use them for streetcar-like operation.