[EnviroTO]

Having experienced a few crush loads on the train now, I am bit concerned about this line’s capacity to handle peak hour commutes.

It should have been a full subway. I think upping the frequency and adding an additional car on the vehicles is something that will be needed in the near-term rather than long-term.

I think we should wait to see what normal ridership turns out being. They have a pretty easy level to pull by moving to 3 car trains (instantly increasing capacity by 50%) and they probably can run the trains closer together still.

 

[nightstreak]

A game changer for the city.

I think so too but it will take a couple more connections to really make a difference. People who would take Line 2 to go East/West often need to go North/West as well. They’ll continue to use Line 2 because of the absence of an alternate N/S connection so they might as well take the faster routes — Lines 2 and 1.

Once the Ontario Line connects to Eglinton in the east end of the city, many of those passengers will no longer need to use Line 1 or 2 and that’ll be a major game changer. The west end really needs that Jane LRT (or a Dufferin subway) but I digress.

A couple of questions for those in the know:

1. Will the number of buses on the network decrease with both the Finch and Eglinton LRTs replacing those routes?

2. Or will they increase with more N/S connections between Line 2 and 5?

3. Are Eglinton buses being discontinued now or after the ramp up period (or ever)?

Is there an article on how north/south bus routes will change?

 

[nightstreak]

Here is the updated subway map!

View attachment 713970

Is this official? So they’re acknowledging on-street lines are different than fully separated. Then why not include the downtown streetcar network? Why is Finch given a subway number? The 504 carries many times more passengers. So does the 510 Spadina and it’s fully separated, no different than Finch.

 

[dougtoronto]

Is this official? So they’re acknowledging on-street lines are different than fully separated. Then why not include the downtown streetcar network? Why is Finch given a subway number? The 504 carries many times more passengers. So does the 510 Spadina and it’s fully separated, no different than Finch.

It's not. This is the official map as per the TTC website:

 

[Mihairokov]

Is this official? So they’re acknowledging on-street lines are different than fully separated.

The official TTC maps stipulate that these lines are "Subway and Light Rail"

 

[Steve X]

They can also easily eliminate aga khan station and hakimi lebovic station. Those two station serve almost no purpose after riding the line eastbound today.

Aga Khan is like the Museum Station. A low ridership station on a busy line.

I disagree with eliminating Hakimi Lebovic, it’s a busy station for shoppers and was packed in the afternoon.

 

[nightstreak]

It's not. This is the official map as per the TTC website:


View attachment 713975

That’s much better. Still doesn’t explain why Finch has a single line number while the streetcars are relegated to a secondary numbering system. Also noticing St Clair is a skinny line and is honestly no different in any way to Finch. This is all politics I guess. Metrolinx built this (Doug Ford himself with his own bare hands) so it must be considered a major transit line. Perhaps the TTC will correct this in the future.

 

[dougtoronto]

That’s much better. Still doesn’t explain why Finch has a single line number while the streetcars are relegated to a secondary numbering system. Also noticing St Clair is a skinny line and is honestly no different in any way to Finch. This is all politics I guess. Metrolinx built this (Doug Ford himself with his own bare hands) so it must be considered a major transit line. Perhaps the TTC will correct this in the future.

My hope is that St. Clair, Spadina, and whatever is happening at the Harbourfront all eventually get the same treatment as Finch, ideally all of them under their own designation (like the trams in Berlin, T1, T2, T3, etc).

 

[eglinton1661]

Some things I learned while talking to a Line 5 operator today:

• The main reason for the speed slowdown in the underground section (although not the only reason) is the guideway intrusion detection system. The problem is it used to be hypersensitive, triggering the emergency brakes for things like plastic bags on the tracks. The emergency brakes are no joke and can fling you across the train if you're not holding on. Now they've been recalibrated to only trigger for intrusions human sized or larger. Operator is optimistic that the speed limit could be raised to 80 even before March.
• Unlike line 6, where trains must travel at 25 until the full length of the train is through the intersection, on Line 5 once the head of the train is through, the operator can gun it, which contributes to Line 5 trains passing through faster.
• Over time, operators will learn from experience how to drive the trains optimally to beat the lights. But the lights right now are timed for train speeds of 55, while trains are instructed to run mostly at 45.
• Line 5 control center can remotely lower individual trains' speed limits to prevent bunching.
• Converting to 3 car trains would cause a lot of problems on the overground section because all the light timings would have to be redone to account for the longer length.
• Operator emphasized that the problem with signal priority is not so much the delay from left turns; the problem is getting the light timing right. As an example, the lights at the DVP off ramp used to give trains just 8 seconds to pass through. The city finally increased it to 24 seconds but only after months of lobbying. The city is responsible for fixing the signals not Metrolinx or CTS or TTC.
• The design of Mount Dennis station is problematic. Besides having no heat, it's open air, meaning that snow billows in and piles up on the platform. Also makes it extremely slippery after a big snow.
• A major concern is people crossing the above ground tracks. Operator pointed out the abundant footprints you can see in the snow on the tracks and how that is an ongoing risk. Believes the only way to prevent it is to put up six foot barriers. The existing fences are way too low.
• Operators send in a stack of feedback paperwork every single day and there already have been huge improvements. Had it opened in the state it was in one year ago it would have been a disaster.

 

[nightstreak]

My hope is that St. Clair, Spadina, and whatever is happening at the Harbourfront all eventually get the same treatment as Finch, ideally all of them under their own designation (like the trams in Berlin, T1, T2, T3, etc).

Not to go too crazy here but subways should use numbers (Line 1, 2, 3) and light rail, including streetcars should use letters (Line A, B, C, D, E…).

Eglinton is kind of a Frankenstein because it’s really both. History will tell whether it’s a good idea to run tunnel/grade separated on the same line with road transit intersecting with car traffic.

If not, it’ll be a fairly easy solution in the future to end Line 5 at Laird and continue it as Line E. Finch gets Line F, Spadina Line S, King Line K, Queen Line Q, College Line C, Dundas Line D, Bathurst Line B — there are letters for everyone!

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

I notice there is an annoying beeping sound during the whole time doors are open. Unless this is a safety feature for passengers, I think they should get rid of it.

This is an accessibility feature. The beeps come from a small speaker above each door and are only active when that door is open, it's to aid those with vision impairments to find the exit.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Lets revisit that after the hype has died down. Don't forget many of today's riders are foamers

We'll see tomorrow, but I am a little concerned. I am home now but on my final trip through the line, every single station was packed, and the Flexity Freedom vehicles were not meant to handle subway level crowding at stations. Mobility within the cars is minimal, at crush loads it is very challenging to get from the middle of the train to the doors for egress.

I think most posts in this thread were accounts taken from morning trips, which were all still relatively fine. As someone who knows first-hand for two decades what kind of crowding occurs at Eglinton Station at rush hour, what I saw this afternoon is more indicative of what to expect. The only saving grace is that it was (a very busy) Sunday, so the trains were not operating at weekday frequency levels. I don't think this is going to help much during the morning rush hour though.

The Crosstown was planned for far fewer peak hour riders than it should have. Luckily, I have some PDFs saved on my laptop from way back when the line was being planned (benefits case analysis for Crosstown, June 2012).

Option 3 was what was built, so I highlighted it. To compare, I pulled TTC Surface Route Ridership in 2019 from Steve Munro here. The quick math for Eglinton Corridor ridership below:

There were approx. 133k riders on the Eglinton corridor in 2019 plus I added a conservative 10% transfers onto the Eglinton Line on all north-south routes for an additional 30k riders. This total is 164,000 daily passengers in 2019. Crude math for those numbers gives us around 12-15,000 pphd traveling in each direction at morning peak hour.

Let's see what they were planning in 2012.

Tragic. I bet that figure included having signal priority on the surface portion as well, lol.

 

[Richard White]

The main reason for the speed slowdown in the underground section (although not the only reason) is the guideway intrusion detection system

I wonder if this has anything to do with the ongoing "intrusion detected into restricted area" announcements at Eglinton today.

 

[pmacpherson68]

Waited 45 minutes for this shot. The very first (eastbound) fare paying train on Line 5. It's alive!

The numbering looks lit... cool photo!

 

[drum118]

Feb 08
It was really cold at 7 am at Mount Dennis at -27 when I saw an eastbound car enter the line from the yard. At 7:25 a car from the yard enter Mount Dennis Station and not sure if it was the first or the second train.

Try to film the first eastbound train but my gloves fingers were cold and could not start the recording. Got a few shots of it. After it clear the switches, another car from the yard enter the station. To deal with the recording issue I took a glove off and I thought I started to record well before the next eastbound train departed but looks like it did not happen.

Took the camera and tripod back to the car before heading to the station.

Choice has setup the north end parking area into a paid area starting at $5.

The first two trains did not look pack and the platform was very empty when I got there after 8 am. One train of the train from the yard was taken out of service an sent back and was replaced by another.

When we departed,, my lead car was about 50% full.

The ride through the tunnel was fast with very few riders on the platforms that were very cold. What struck me was the lack of any crossover until near Yonge that was full with clear. Saw a few more in the east end. My driver slow down a bit crossing the switches. Made good time once we hit the surface area until Victoria Park. As we approached VP, there was another train at the VP station and odd since never saw it front of us until then. For some reason, between VP and Pharmacy has been a bottle neck issue going back a few year where it was common to see two trains following the leader from 1-3 minutes apart. Some slow going from Pharmacy.

My plan was to get off at a number of stations on the way back to shoot the stations inside and out but too cold to do so. Did have a look at Kennedy and Mount Dennis.

I found the surface trip a lot faster going westbound as well over the switches. I don't know about others but the headways were all over the place from 1-3 minutes between car to 9-15 for some. For the 9-15 ones were odd as it was climbing as we head west when it should have been dropping.

It was announce there was an issue at Chaplin station and all trains were being stop near the station. The all clear took place about 5 minutes later while we were still moving.

I found the non cab end similar to TTC fleet but has a step up to get to them. Not many people at the front trying to shoot their trip going east but sat in the second car going west.

Overall, the line ran smoother than Finch on opening day. Tomorrow will be the real test.