[Bordercollie]

Absolutely, I was thinking just as much about Line 6 when I wrote that. For that matter, I would also include the legacy tram lines such as 501 Queensway and 504 King, where similar signalling is possible but TTC and City staff are dug in in their apathy about pushing for faster service.

When I was picking up relatives on Christmas Day, I drove by Humber Loop and noted a line of four -yes, four - 501 streetcars sitting at the end of the line killing time. It's a minimum service holiday schedule, FFS, but it's so padded that the trams pile up at the end of the line and stand still.



if you mean, it triggered a rebellion that led to a better and freer republic, I agree.

It's very fortunate that Line 6 came into service first and caused the embarrassment that tipped the Mayor's office into action... and gave transit riders the political high ground. Had Line 5 opened first, that might not have happened.

It's also fortunate, perhaps, that the testing and commissioning and then opening has been painless for motorists. Had the TPS been installed and turned on sooner, before any riders were being carried, the surprise and backlash from motorists might have led to pressure to turn it off. Now it will come in more preannounced manner, and I do think it will be harder for the auto faction to raise a grievance without looking a bit entitled and tone deaf. The result may be more balanced and less reactionary.

So maybe the Line 6 debacle is a silver lining that saved the day.

- Paul

Even when the combined queen and king car was diverted along Richmond and Adelaide streetcars had to wait for cars to make a turn resulting in terrible travel times. 4 streetcars lined up waiting for one person in a car to mta turn. Makes no sense.

 

[Dan416]

Absolutely, I was thinking just as much about Line 6 when I wrote that. For that matter, I would also include the legacy tram lines such as 501 Queensway and 504 King, where similar signalling is possible but TTC and City staff are dug in in their apathy about pushing for faster service.

When I was picking up relatives on Christmas Day, I drove by Humber Loop and noted a line of four -yes, four - 501 streetcars sitting at the end of the line killing time. It's a minimum service holiday schedule, FFS, but it's so padded that the trams pile up at the end of the line and stand still.



if you mean, it triggered a rebellion that led to a better and freer republic, I agree.

It's very fortunate that Line 6 came into service first and caused the embarrassment that tipped the Mayor's office into action... and gave transit riders the political high ground. Had Line 5 opened first, that might not have happened.

It's also fortunate, perhaps, that the testing and commissioning and then opening has been painless for motorists. Had the TPS been installed and turned on sooner, before any riders were being carried, the surprise and backlash from motorists might have led to pressure to turn it off. Now it will come in more preannounced manner, and I do think it will be harder for the auto faction to raise a grievance without looking a bit entitled and tone deaf. The result may be more balanced and less reactionary.

So maybe the Line 6 debacle is a silver lining that saved the day.

- Paul

For this to happen, I think the political pressure and the media attention to the slowness of line 6 need to be maintained and not let up until something is actually done about it. And I really hope they do end up doing it for all the streetcars, and not just line 6.

 

[smallspy]

We are past the point where some unknown issue blocked putting parts of the line in service before the rest.

At first glance - If we are now at the point where surface operation is the critical missing element, it seems possible to open the line from Mount Dennis to the first above ground turnback point. That might mean retaining the Eglinton East bus, but the west bus could be eliminated and some surface routes realigned. And public acceptance (delight) with the underground portion would flow.

But if that was the problem, why wouldn't they have opened the underground part of the line already? After all, the yard is connected to the tunneled section, not the open-air section.

And it doesn't account for the crews that still seem to be at work at the various stations.

It doesn't seem to be that TSP is the show-stopper here. There are other issues at play with the line. Which is incredibly frustrating considering the additional time that they've already had to resolve them.

Dan

 

[duty free]

That's very true but rapid transit, like roads, are only as good as their weakest link and Eglinton has 9km of weak link.

What would you do? Rebuild the eastern portion elevated?

 

[ssiguy2]

What would you do? Rebuild the eastern portion elevated?

Well that's what should have be done in the first place but it's too late now. That, however, does not mean this line cannot be salvaged as all it takes is some political will. First, get rid of some of these stops along the eastern portion. It should have the same, or even less, the stop distances as the underground sections. Second, give the line 100% street priority. With today's technology there is absolutely NO reason why any of trains should be stopping for any red lights. The only stopping should be to pick up passengers and everything else should be free flowing. Third, raise the max speed to 70 km/hr on street running sections. Remember these are separated lanes so that they can go faster than cars safely. That's the whole point of having them separated in the first place. If they have to go the same speed as the cars, they could have just painted a lane and been done with.

 

[McGillicuddy]

Great, write all that on a postcard and mail it to Queen's Park. Doug Ford could use the kindling.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

But if that was the problem, why wouldn't they have opened the underground part of the line already? After all, the yard is connected to the tunneled section, not the open-air section.

And it doesn't account for the crews that still seem to be at work at the various stations.

It doesn't seem to be that TSP is the show-stopper here. There are other issues at play with the line. Which is incredibly frustrating considering the additional time that they've already had to resolve them.

Dan

I do know that according to Steve Munro, they are making staffing and crewing adjustments on Line 1, 5, and 6 this coming board period adding "Service Assistance Crews". So my guess is the issues they want to fix are more operational in nature than anything else.

 

[Amare]

Great, write all that on a postcard and mail it to Queen's Park. Doug Ford could use the kindling.

It's touching that we're assuming Doug Ford can read and comprehend...

We already know he cant do basic arithmetic, so if he cant do that I highly doubt he can read. I doubt he's read any Briefing Note that's ever been left for him in his life.

 

[duty free]

Well that's what should have be done in the first place but it's too late now. That, however, does not mean this line cannot be salvaged as all it takes is some political will. First, get rid of some of these stops along the eastern portion. It should have the same, or even less, the stop distances as the underground sections. Second, give the line 100% street priority. With today's technology there is absolutely NO reason why any of trains should be stopping for any red lights. The only stopping should be to pick up passengers and everything else should be free flowing. Third, raise the max speed to 70 km/hr on street running sections. Remember these are separated lanes so that they can go faster than cars safely. That's the whole point of having them separated in the first place. If they have to go the same speed as the cars, they could have just painted a lane and been done with.

I predict that in the next 20-40 years they'll rebuild the eastern portion of Line 5 & all of Line 6. The conversation will start to enter the public realm post Ontario Line once the GP sees what could've been.

 

[Bojaxs]

I predict that in the next 20-40 years they'll rebuild the eastern portion of Line 5 & all of Line 6. The conversation will start to enter the public realm post Ontario Line once the GP sees what could've been.

I hope so. Toronto is crying out for subways. Toronto has some of the highest transit ridership numbers out of all North American cities. Yet Toronto ranks 8th or 9th in terms of subway network size with 76.9kms of track (Line 1,2, & 4). (Source, Google AI)

All the while American cities like Chicago (165.4km), Washington DC (208km) and even Atlanta (77km) have larger subway networks, yet their ridership numbers pales in comparison to Toronto's.

So the cities that don't want subways, get subways. While the cities that do want subways, don't get subways.

 

[micheal_can]

I predict that in the next 20-40 years they'll rebuild the eastern portion of Line 5 & all of Line 6. The conversation will start to enter the public realm post Ontario Line once the GP sees what could've been.

The thing is, if they were to put crossing arms at each intersection, then it could run less like a streetcar and more like an LRT should.

 

[Steve X]

The thing is, if they were to put crossing arms at each intersection, then it could run less like a streetcar and more like an LRT should.

I wonder how many of those arms will be out of service within one year time in GTA traffic.

 

[duty free]

I hope so. Toronto is crying out for subways. Toronto has some of the highest transit ridership numbers out of all North American cities. Yet Toronto ranks 8th or 9th in terms of subway network size with 76.9kms of track (Line 1,2, & 4). (Source, Google AI)

All the while American cities like Chicago (165.4km), Washington DC (208km) and even Atlanta (77km) have larger subway networks, yet their ridership numbers pales in comparison to Toronto's.

So the cities that don't want subways, get subways. While the cities that do want subways, don't get subways.


View attachment 705388

I agree Toronto is in desperate need of more subway lines. If Toronto built more they would be immensely successful in gaining ridership, but we’re a Grand Paris Express level of network expansion to reach a comparable system to a city like Madrid. We will most likely never have a system that approaches 300km.

Regarding the other systems in the US you mentioned, they’re more like an S-Bahn than our subway system, which like New York’s is highly frequent. Imagine running three trains an hour on Line 1 or 2 during peak hours. That’s what those systems are like. At best it’s a train every 5 or 10 minutes. The TTC does provide a good service, much better than Chicago or DC despite their more expansive networks. Toronto is lacking the network, but they are lacking the frequency.

 

[ARG1]

I predict that in the next 20-40 years they'll rebuild the eastern portion of Line 5 & all of Line 6. The conversation will start to enter the public realm post Ontario Line once the GP sees what could've been.

Line 5 maybe, Line 6 definitely not. I honestly think we'd sooner see a Steeles Light Metro that extends into Brampton than some sort of Line 6 metro conversion.

 

[duty free]

The thing is, if they were to put crossing arms at each intersection, then it could run less like a streetcar and more like an LRT should.

They did that on QQ. With a streetcar route or more specifically a tunnel portal. There is no limit to amount of poor drivers here and every year it gets worse. Something has to change.