[Steve X]

21 minutes for the under and above ground section respectively for a total of ~42 minutes with no passengers but with a simulated dwell time for passenger movement, correct me if I am wrong. I can't help but expect the real world conditions to be slower than 42 minutes in testing. 21 minutes to travel 8km implies an average speed of 22.85km/h above ground. Given how weak the signal priority is, I'll believe it when I see it.

steamed-apple_juice:
"boarding and alighting an LRT will take longer than the subway due to door placement and internal circulation"

The testing trains run pretty slowly to account for those loading time.

It is ridiculous that the left turn signal for a few cars take priority over the hundreds of riders on the train. By simply placing the left turn phase after straight traffic, the same amount of cars still get through each cycle with the benefit of shaving off a few minutes. This city is so backwards.

 

[drum118]

It's just comically close to the two adjacent stations.

View attachment 692161

I mean, the westbound Warden platform is all of 75 metres from the eastbound Lebovic platform. Total stop spacing between Warden and Lebovic is less than 250 metres. It's a joke. Even if you deleted Lebovic, you would be looking at a 700 metre stop spacing between Warden and Pharmacy which is still very reasonable.

The Ferrand stop is similarly useless, requiring passengers to cross Eglinton at the DVP off-ramp (dangerous and unpleasant) and servicing very little in easy walking distance that wouldn't prefer to walk to Don Mills instead.

Metrolinx deleting those two stops would have substantially improved travel times on the surface alignment with a very, very minimal impact to riders.

Since both stations are service by bus routes going north-south how do riders transfer to the LRT if one or both stations are remove?? How do you handle a walking transfer while maintaining the 2 hour windon for Presto without having riders having to pay an exta fare if they use time walking to/from an LRT station to/from the bus route??

 

[chrisw]

Since both stations are service by bus routes going north-south how do riders transfer to the LRT if one or both stations are remove?? How do you handle a walking transfer while maintaining the 2 hour windon for Presto without having riders having to pay an exta fare if they use time walking to/from an LRT station to/from the bus route??

Bus routes can be rerouted towards transfer points.

Anyways you're mistaken, Hakimi Lebovic and Aga Khan (Ferrand) both don't have bus route connections.

 

[smallspy]

21 minutes for the under and above ground section respectively for a total of ~42 minutes with no passengers but with a simulated dwell time for passenger movement, correct me if I am wrong.

Consider yourself corrected.

Operators have been simulating service at all stops, opening and closing the doors, but more importantly leaving them open for some time before initiating the closing sequence. The 21 minute figure is an average of travel times and factors in the traffic lights. Just like on the subway, that can be longer or shorter if the dwell time is lengthened or reduced.

Dan

 

[smallspy]

It's just comically close to the two adjacent stations.

View attachment 692161

I mean, the westbound Warden platform is all of 75 metres from the eastbound Lebovic platform. Total stop spacing between Warden and Lebovic is less than 250 metres. It's a joke. Even if you deleted Lebovic, you would be looking at a 700 metre stop spacing between Warden and Pharmacy which is still very reasonable.

And how many trains will service the westbound Warden and then the eastbound Lebovic stops in that sequence?

Hint: It's none.

No matter how close those two stops may appear to be on a map, the reality is that they are still 330 metres away from each other to the trains and passengers onboard.

Metrolinx deleting those two stops would have substantially improved travel times on the surface alignment with a very, very minimal impact to riders.

Substantially? Not likely, with each stop only requiring a minute or less to service.

Dan

 

[innsertnamehere]

And how many trains will service the westbound Warden and then the eastbound Lebovic stops in that sequence?

Hint: It's none.

No matter how close those two stops may appear to be on a map, the reality is that they are still 330 metres away from each other to the trains and passengers onboard.


Substantially? Not likely, with each stop only requiring a minute or less to service.

Dan

If we are looking at a ~21 minute travel time on the surface portion of the line, 2 minutes saved means that's a 10% speed improvement. It's relatively substantial.

Saying the stations are 330 metres apart in reality, while true, still isn't really helping your case I don't think. "rapid transit" stops simply don't need to be that close together.

Regardless, what is done is done. The stations got built.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Since both stations are service by bus routes going north-south how do riders transfer to the LRT if one or both stations are remove?? How do you handle a walking transfer while maintaining the 2 hour windon for Presto without having riders having to pay an exta fare if they use time walking to/from an LRT station to/from the bus route??

Exactly what bus routes service Lebovic and especially Ferrand? Ferrand doesn't even have a cross-street for buses to run on. Lebovic also does not have an existing or planned bus route on it.

 

[UntitledCyclist]

21 minutes for the under and above ground section respectively for a total of ~42 minutes with no passengers but with a simulated dwell time for passenger movement, correct me if I am wrong. I can't help but expect the real world conditions to be slower than 42 minutes in testing. 21 minutes to travel 8km implies an average speed of 22.85km/h above ground. Given how weak the signal priority is, I'll believe it when I see it.

steamed-apple_juice:
"boarding and alighting an LRT will take longer than the subway due to door placement and internal circulation"

I'm sure it's out there somewhere, but are the seating arrangements for ECLRT (and FLRT) the same as the Flexity Streetcars in circulation? I hate those so much: the 4-seat boxes where you play footsy with people across from you, and the very narrow aisles that make walking front or back in the train virtually impossible without jostling everyone in an aisle seat. These things definitely impact loading times too, especially when someone needs to move to an exit with a mobility device or a stroller.

 

[Northern Light]

Ferrand doesn't even have a cross-street for buses to run on.

This will change, Ferrand is getting lights and will be a cross street. (whether that justifies a stop is a different question)

Lebovic also does not have an existing or planned bus route on it.

Correct.

 

[T3G]

These things definitely impact loading times too, especially when someone needs to move to an exit with a mobility device or a stroller.

Why would this be the case, when the open area with flip up seats is located immediately across from a doorway?

I hate those so much: the 4-seat boxes where you play footsy with people across from you, and the very narrow aisles that make walking front or back in the train virtually impossible without jostling everyone in an aisle seat.

Unfortunately, that is a consequence of making the vehicles accessible to the groups you mentioned above. We as a society decided high floor vehicles with wheelchair lifts are not it, and thus the only other option is a low floor tram, with all the benefits and drawbacks inherent to the design.

I will agree about the 4 seat boxes, though. I would have much preferred for the seats over the trucks to be all facing inward. They'd probably be (relatively) cleaner, too, since we live in a society of selfish jackasses who insist on putting their dirty shoes up on anything that is within stretching distance of them.

 

[smallspy]

Saying the stations are 330 metres apart in reality, while true, still isn't really helping your case I don't think. "rapid transit" stops simply don't need to be that close together.

Rapid transit stations need to be as close or as far as they need to be. Here, considering the passenger loads that regularly get on and off of the buses, it makes sense to have a stop.

Maybe you shouldn't get hung up on terms such as "rapid". It's arbitrary, not an absolute. And it will be faster than the service that exists there today.

Dan

 

[TOtramz]

I've heard somewhere that the stops on the Scarborough portion of the line were spaced so close together because the plan was to not need a supplementary 34 bus once operational.

Not sure how true that is though

 

[A 6264]

The testing trains run pretty slowly to account for those loading time.

I would have thought they run the trains at full speed, and make long stops as a guesstimate of actual stop time if there were passengers getting in and out. How is running trains slower, a simulation or test of the system?

 

[Steve X]

I would have thought they run the trains at full speed, and make long stops as a guesstimate of actual stop time if there were passengers getting in and out. How is running trains slower, a simulation or test of the system?

Many times, you see the trains dwell for a whole minute at platforms and traffic lights. They could have totally gone through.

 

[cplchanb]

Many times, you see the trains dwell for a whole minute at platforms and traffic lights. They could have totally gone through.

not to mention they get the signal shaft since the transit signal goes red first a whole 10+sec before the road's.... unbelievable how hard toronto is trying to neuter themselves.