[Monarch Butterfly]

The TTC has been promising rapid transit to the airport since the 1970s. They even put a bus route from Kipling station to the airport on the subway route map above the doors on the trains, as though to pretend there is a subway going there. I suspect Toronto is hoping the people who run the airport will put up a large wad of cash to make it happen, but after all this time, it's still on the wish list for the future.

Urban Toronto has had a thread on the Pearson Transit Hub at https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/toronto-pearson-transit-hub-m-s-gtaa.21541/ since 2015. Also a Eglinton Line 5 Crosstown West Extension Airport Segment thread at https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/eglinton-line-5-crosstown-west-extension-airport-segment.34550/ since 2022.

 

[smallspy]

Hell, I unless I'm wrong the inaccessible "platform" on the north side of Kipling Station was originally designed for a streetcar/LRT that would run to the airport.

The LRT platform is on the south side of the bus terminal, and no - it was to provide an LRT to northern Etobicoke via Kipling and/or the various hydro corridors.

Dan

 

[zang]

The LRT platform is on the south side of the bus terminal, and no - it was to provide an LRT to northern Etobicoke via Kipling and/or the various hydro corridors.

Dan

Sorry, yes, south side. But according to Transit Toronto, the proposed line was to extend to the airport.

Kipling - Transit Toronto - Subway Station Database

"To serve the lower-density suburbs with less expensive rapid transit, the TTC had proposed building high-speed streetcar lines on private rights-of-way fanning out from the terminals of the subway line. Planning for such a system got very far on the SCARBOROUGH RT before the provincial government intervened and convinced the TTC and Metropolitan Toronto to switch the project to the experimental ICTS technology it was building.

A similar high-speed streetcar line was planned to extend from Kipling station, possibly running west and then north along Highway 427 to connect the subway to Pearson Airport. This proposal was taken seriously enough that the architects of Kipling Station built a platform to serve such a line into the station itself. On the bus terminal level, across from the bus roadway, a platform and trench seen today are the only evidence that such a line was under serious consideration. However, beyond this measure, the line never moved past the proposal phase, and as the SCARBOROUGH RT proved to be more expensive than originally hoped for, the Etobicoke RT proposal was quietly dropped."

 

[MisterF]

The TTC has been promising rapid transit to the airport since the 1970s. They even put a bus route from Kipling station to the airport on the subway route map above the doors on the trains, as though to pretend there is a subway going there. I suspect Toronto is hoping the people who run the airport will put up a large wad of cash to make it happen, but after all this time, it's still on the wish list for the future.

To be fair, we have rapid transit to the airport. It's not the TTC but it does exist.

 

[zang]

To be fair, we have rapid transit to the airport. It's not the TTC but it does exist.

Yeah, though it's downtown-centric. Honestly, even though buses are slow, you're probably still likely to get to the airport faster from almost any other part of the city by bus than by getting down to Union and taking the Blue22UP Express, negating the "rapid" aspect of it.

 

[MisterF]

Yeah, though it's downtown-centric. Honestly, even though buses are slow, you're probably still likely to get to the airport faster from almost any other part of the city by bus than by getting down to Union and taking the Blue22UP Express, negating the "rapid" aspect of it.

It has stops at Weston, Bloor and (soon) Mount Dennis (interchanges with Lines 2 and 5), so it's not entirely downtown-centric. I don't live downtown but the UP Express is the best way for me to get to Pearson.

I'm not saying that other lines shouldn't be built to the airport. Multiple options are a good thing after all. I'm just saying that talking about rapid transit to Pearson like it doesn't already exist is disingenuous.

 

[dowlingm]

Agreed, that was far too kind of them

if you've never lived anywhere else, maybe. Compared to some places I have, Toronto has a great bus service (which isn't to say it couldn't be better)

 

[T3G]

I'd say Toronto has great bus service (and transit) compared to other cities in North America (New York excepted). But when compared to various European cities, our bus service looks great only when viewed on a map. There's loads of routes in the suburbs with wildly unattractive frequencies*, the line management and schedule adherence is abysmal, and the bus models that we run are also terrible.

* Sure, one could argue, frequencies are set according to extant passenger demand. But it's kind of a chicken and egg type of situation: if you run unattractive frequencies, people will opt to drive instead, and the service will never get any better.

 

[felix123]

if you've never lived anywhere else, maybe. Compared to some places I have, Toronto has a great bus service (which isn't to say it couldn't be better)

Yep, lived in multiple cities in four countries. Toronto's surface transit is a painful experience for those of us who use it frequently. The problem with Toronto's bus network more specifically is that it's forced to too much heavy lifting from a lack of rapid transit, leading to all the bunching, overcrowding, delays and sluggish pace we experience here, which yes, is worse than in London or Berlin or Sydney. It won't improve until we build more RT.

On the bright side, the Line 5 opening should improve things a bit. It can't come soon enough.

 

[nfitz]

The TTC has been promising rapid transit to the airport since the 1970s. They even put a bus route from Kipling station to the airport on the subway route map above the doors on the trains, as though to pretend there is a subway going there. I suspect Toronto is hoping the people who run the airport will put up a large wad of cash to make it happen, but after all this time, it's still on the wish list for the future.

If rapid transit was to mean transit that is rapid, the average speed on the 900 Airport Express ranges from 39 km/hr to 52 km/hr exceeding any subway line we have. If we were to have a traditional subway line, it would have additional stops and perhaps a lower peak velocity and be slower. I believe the next fastest bus is the 927 Highway 27 Express that ranges from 25 to 34 km/hr an hour.

The 900 service is excellent - the only reason the UP train has an advantage from Line 2 is that it's diagonal, and thus shorter, avoiding the relatively slow subway segment from Dundas West to Kipling.

I see no reason for it not to be on the subway map, given how unique it is, and communication of this service to the public.

 

[Jago88]

Yep, lived in multiple cities in four countries. Toronto's surface transit is a painful experience for those of us who use it frequently. The problem with Toronto's bus network more specifically is that it's forced to too much heavy lifting from a lack of rapid transit, leading to all the bunching, overcrowding, delays and sluggish pace we experience here, which yes, is worse than in London or Berlin or Sydney. It won't improve until we build more RT.

On the bright side, the Line 5 opening should improve things a bit. It can't come soon enough.

Last week I was on the 32 heading east on Eglinton from Jane to Eglinton West Station at around 3.45pm on a Thursday. We got as far as Oakwood Ave. (which Google tells me is 550m from Eglinton West Station) and we stopped moving for a few mins. I eventually stood up to see what was happening ahead and it was just traffic as far as I could see so I hopped out of the bus and started walking. I immediately noticed how many buses were there so I started counting as I walked the 550m to the station and counted 14 buses! Insane, it REALLY can't come soon enough.

 

[Amare]

Last week I was on the 32 heading east on Eglinton from Jane to Eglinton West Station at around 3.45pm on a Thursday. We got as far as Oakwood Ave. (which Google tells me is 550m from Eglinton West Station) and we stopped moving for a few mins. I eventually stood up to see what was happening ahead and it was just traffic as far as I could see so I hopped out of the bus and started walking. I immediately noticed how many buses were there so I started counting as I walked the 550m to the station and counted 14 buses! Insane, it REALLY can't come soon enough.

Indeed it's a beautiful mess around Eglinton and Allen Rd.

Which leads to not just issues east-west with the 32, it leads to north-south routes getting tied up and delayed because of idiots who decide to block the intersection. For instance, the Bathurst bus often times gets held up and cant go through the intersection at Bathurst and Eglinton due to the drivers blocking the box; resulting in the bus being held for several light changes.

 

[Jago88]

Indeed it's a beautiful mess around Eglinton and Allen Rd.

Which leads to not just issues east-west with the 32, it leads to north-south routes getting tied up and delayed because of idiots who decide to block the intersection. For instance, the Bathurst bus often times gets held up and cant go through the intersection at Bathurst and Eglinton due to the drivers blocking the box; resulting in the bus being held for several light changes.

yeah, that was evident on this occasion along with at least 2 cars pulled over in the right lane with their hazard lights on making a 'quick' stop

The other thing is cars 'zooming' (relatively) up the right lane and then decide they actually want to make a left turn onto Allen Road at the last minute and end up blocking the people behind wanting to go straight. As you said, a beautiful mess.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Indeed it's a beautiful mess around Eglinton and Allen Rd.

Which leads to not just issues east-west with the 32, it leads to north-south routes getting tied up and delayed because of idiots who decide to block the intersection. For instance, the Bathurst bus often times gets held up and cant go through the intersection at Bathurst and Eglinton due to the drivers blocking the box; resulting in the bus being held for several light changes.

Caledonia Station is not a problem... yet. But will be once Line 5 opens. See https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/toronto-eglinton-line-5-go-caledonia-station-11-72m-2s-metrolinx-mccallum-sather.19735/post-2194695

Under MTO, Toronto MUST have farside traffic signals, not nearside traffic signals like in Europe.

 

[crs1026]

The congestion and bad driver decisions in the Oakwood-Allen stretch of the road warrant full time presence of traffic wardens as have been deployed downtown. It's just stupid how often deliveries and construction happens during rush hours (which for the past decade runs from 06:00 to 19:00 or later). Deliveries, taxis, and Uber parking in and blocking no stopping lanes etc.

I can't see congestion ever going away in that area, but it's problemmatic just how little is done to at least get this street flowing better.

- Paul